Tired of whiney 3 pedal-ers

I think I now understand the "430 is so slow" posts.

 

Correct. The 430 is so slow (IMO) that it forces me to use the manual mode.

 

I don't see how anyone in their right frame of mind can argue that a 6 speed would somehow be "better" in a 458. It won't be. The argument can be made that one is not trying to set records every time they drive on the street where a 458 spends most of it's time for most of the people so a choice of a 6 speed manual would not be such a bad thing... I can relate to that since I am a big fan of a 3 pedal manual, it just adds another dimension to the driving fun. Not in traffic or a daily commute but on that weekend sprint, to be able to clutch, shift and hear the engine sing a song on it's way to the redline as you grab the next gear and do it all over. Pure Italian symphony, pure sex, that is what these cars are all about. I felt that way when I drove a 6 speed manual Gallardo and the F430. But I have to say, I still think a 458 is way too much of a car for a 6 speed. So is the MP4, the Aventador, even the 599GTB was too much and guys complained about how it was not very pleasant to drive with that rare "row it yourself" gearbox and over 600HP.

The 6 speed manual felt soooo right in a 355. You actually have time to wind out the gears! It feels good in a 400HP Porsche... The F430 feels like you can just about have some fun and perhaps won't get arrested in the first 5 minutes...

I don't blame Ferrari for NOT putting a 6 speed manual on the options list. I doubt anyone would really enjoy it that much and if they bought it, I think they would yearn for the awesome dual clutch the 458 has now.

I hate to think that we will never have a 6 speed manual ever again though.... I would love to see Ferrari bring out another car like the Dino with an adequate engine output, nothing too crazy and give us the good old 6 speed manual to play with. I personally would be all over that car! A more modern, reliable, simpler and more affordable Ferrari, below the California. As many brands as the Fiat groups owns, I am sure they could come up with a nicely tuned 6 cyl to use in such a car. Now that would be fun! If I was to buy another 458 or the 458 scud it would certainly NOT be a 6 speed manual, I simply would not enjoy it, not that it would ever be an option anyways...

 

Ok, you can be the "The Governor" (Iol). Being left handed cannot write with fountain pen without allot of mess. Best

 

If someone gets a leg cramp in a hydraulic-assisted clutch manual transmission car made in the last two decades, they need to get to the gym a couple of times a week.

 

The problem with your argument is we do not know if given the freedom to choose, would Ferrari use many of the tech that you claim is modern.

Government saftey + emission regulations force manufacturers to do things they otherwise wouldn't. Ever notice why the 458 sits so high(wheel gap)? Or why the car always starts in auto mode? Or why in supposed modern times, sports cars are heavier then ever? Sorry this has nothing to do with the latest and greatest, its merely manufacturers having to work around restrictions forced upon them.

Turbo cars, DCTs, computer electronics, over utilization of aerodynamics are all the result of state imposed limitations. The 458 would be a completely different car were Ferrari given maximum design and engineering freedom. That is fact. This is not natural evolution.

 

The first premise of the original post seems to be that the 458, as a package, benefits from the F1 transmission. I would tend to agree that the car simply feels "right" with the F1, and it does indeed seem apparent that it is integrated into the fundamental character of the car.

Where the post becomes dubious is the assertion that manual transmissions are not "for today's world" and that they are antiquated. The canyon drive I love has not changed at all in the last 20 years. The same road, the same challenging banked corners, the same demand for skill in gear selection. It remains manifestly more enjoyable and entertaining in my manual cars than it is in an automatic. The assertion that today's world has somehow morphed to the point that rev matching and heel and toe skills are no longer relevant is just plain goofy. Perhaps if you are unfortunate enough to spend your entire driving life on a seven lane freeway slogging through traffic, an automatic makes sense. However, in that case I'll buy a Camry and listen to a good book on tape while I drive.

The final premise, the idea that those who prefer three pedal cars are whiners, is simply specious, or calculated to be so outrageous that it stimulates comment. It appears to have succeeded in that regard.

Based on the logic of the original post, I think I better get rid of my pesky and antiquated automatic IWC wristwatches, since a battery operated Casio G-Shock is so much more accurate. While I'm at it, I better throw out my wool Brooks Brothers suits, since polyester leisure suits clean up so well in the washer. And who needs those pesky handmade English shotguns, when one can buy a modern 12 guage pump and shoot more than two rounds at a go?

The F1 works well in the 458. Whether it is superior to a great 3 pedal car like my Ford GT is a matter of opinion. The rest is all smoke.

 

Those who fight technology will get run over. and nobody will look back.

Buggy whips come to mind.

Sorry.

 

My 360 has F1. I wouldn't have another manual even if I was paid to.
But that "Auto" button thingie, that's for when you buy a McDonalds and need to carry on, isn't it? It's the only time I have ever used mine.

 

Of course not. But that's because the primary purpose of a refrigerator is to keep things cold inside your warm home. Improvements to that device since the '60s have been consistent with that mission. Better insulation, a quieter, more efficient compressor, the ability to dispense cold water and ice - all those things make the refrigerator better for that purpose.

A Ferrari driven on the street, on the other hand, is not transportation. Yes, it can transport people from A to B, and yes, it can do so quite quickly, but that's a side line to its true mission, which is to entertain. If you want "transportation" -- taking people and cargo from A to B, a Ferrari is not as well suited to that as any number of economy sedans or SUVs, such as a Volt or Prius. (Or even mass transit, where you can work on your laptop during transport.) But in terms of which is more fun to drive, more entertaining, the 458 wins hands down.

Once one focuses on the true mission of a Ferrari as entertainment rather than transportation, then the ability to entertain becomes highly subjective; some find it more entertaining to pull paddles and have the transmission execute perfect shifts consistently, but others find it more entertaining to train oneself to execute (near) perfect (but slower) shifts as near consistently as possible. Some prefer the opera, others prefer jazz.

I would venture to guess that most who prefer paddle shifted transmissions would see the DCT as the current ultimate expression of that type, trading up from F1s (single clutch automated manuals) if given the choice. Those who prefer manual shifters would appreciate improvements to the precision and feel of a shifter gate or clutch pedal, but not see any form of transmission automation as "better," (at least for non-track use) and would not choose to trade up to an automated manual, even if it gave you the shifting perfection of a DCT.

But change the mission a bit; your Ferrari is no longer just for those entertaining weekend drives, but you live with it every day, driving it in traffic, long distances on freeways, and needing to parallel park it, and then because you've upped the transportation portion of its mission, you may prefer a DCT over a manual (and likely to buy all those options that many Tifosi sneer at, such as cruise control and rear view cameras). But not necessarily because it's more entertaining, unless you were a DCT-type person to begin with.

Anyway, thanks Bob, for baiting us into this ages old debate for the new year!

 

If it were me I would choose a traditional automatic transmission with torque converter over a manual (which I don't know how to drive) or even an F1. I don't understand why the F1 shifts so abruptly. It seems like poor engineering to me. I thought that this thing was supposed to rev-match? They did a piss poor job on this. Give me a Mercedes built automatic transmission any day. The performance would be better, the shifts silky smooth and, absent a clutch, the maintanence would be cheaper. The small power losses through the torque converter would be negligible.

 

+1
I agree...
Plus keep in mind that I understand why certain high performance track-oriented versions (such as the Challenge Stradale , Scuderia , 16M ,etc) would only be offered with F1...
They are built for going very very fast and racing only... Therefore, they require the latest technology which is F1 and DCT...
However, it has always been the premise that entry level 360, 430, 458 are multi-purpose and are not only race-oriented... They are more suited for spirited driving, weekend getaways, group driving with our performance cars and the occasional track-day...
Therefore, the option for a 6-speed manual I think should be left to the buyer...
Now the question : Would I buy a manual 458 if it was offered ? Maybe yes, because when I open the door to a performance car and see 3-pedals and a gear shift my heart beats faster , because I know it is going to a challenge for me to drive this thing fast and get the most satisfaction from performing the 2nd to 3rd change with ESP off while I correct with opposite lock with the other hand as I put the power down, or performing that perfect heel and toe downshift as I approach a corner and hearing the engine backfired (cause by me not some electronics) !!!
There is no question that the future for high speed driving is DCT... And maybe even further down the future electric power... It is more efficient, economic and cleaner... But who would buy an electric Ferrari, even if it were faster ??? Probably the next generation...

For me it is flat plane V8, Coupe, 6-speed manual and red !!!!!!

 

+1

 

Yes , I agree. The technology of F1 and DCT is far superior...

BUT, the only reason why I would understand the argument of babyboo that he prefers Automatic transmission is because they are trouble free and almost maintenance free...
This allows for carefree driving, whereas in a F1 transmission you constantly have to think about removing gear at traffic light, starting abruptly to avoid clutch from slipping, difficult to drive in and our of steep driveways, etc etc
Whereas in an Automatic transmission with torque converter you simply don't care... You are relaxed, which is the point of driving an automatic...
Ask any 360 F1 owner and he will tell you how frustrating it is when he cannot engage reverse or can shift certain gears... As for service and maintenance... $$$$ for worn clutch and faulty pumps...
So pure automatic can in many cases be better than F1 and DCT if you want carefree / trouble free driving...

 

The doors on 1968 refrigerators or new ones have the same functional user interface, a handle. Stick shifts are fun operate new or vintage....unless a contemporary refrigerator has a door that automatically opens when you approach it, nobody is gonna prefer a 68 fridge because it's more fun to open.

The refrigerator and cassette tape analogy miss the point about stickshifts.... sure there may be nostalgia for cassette, but nobody prefers rewinding or fastforwarding tape like shifting gears in a race car.

 

+1. Intelligently written and 100% correct.

 

Agree with you to a large degree, in reality the solution is to have a 458 and and older gated shifter car, the two would complement each other perfectly.

 

Really? Is that your final answer?

 

As F1 technology continues to improve, the amazing transmission in the 458 will seem less and less so amazing. That, for me, is reason enough to avoid the paddles. A manual will always be just that. Same as it ever was.

There's a great thread on a Ferrari Life where someone converted an F1 360 to a manual for around 5k. I predict this will be a growing trend.