Tired of whiney 3 pedal-ers

Exactly. If you could go back to 1979 would you tell those carb loving owners to sniff, sniff shut up and stop whining? You're losing sight of your own point. People are taking offence to how you are telling them not what you are telling them. You're seriously annoyed that there is a post a week about the demise of 3 pedal manuals? Man you have 30,000 posts on this board. Does anybody start a thread to say that they are just tired of you posting everywhere and on everything? No because that would be rude. So why do you expect everybody to just lay down and stop talking about the stuff that concerns them. Because you are the self appointed MAYOR?

 

The only parts of the above I take exception with is the apparent equation of REALITY with MAJORITY and the tenor of the post about what constitutes "whining." Sure seems to me that the quoted query about Ferrari making a manual box is a lot lest confrontational and whiney than many of the other comments that seem pretty whiney about so-called "whiners." But of course the whole thread sought confrontation, not peace IMO. Oddly , I agree with the premise of superior performance, but disagree with the delivery and, dare I say, grandstanding?

 

You said "I think the DCT is just as maintenance free and reliable as a auto slush box."

My question to you is, do you really believe that to be true?

 

Posting is "risk" taking. We can easily , even inadvertently, provoke or miscommunicate. We see no facial expression, cultural context, or motivation (except by inference). Who actually owns or has driven the cars under discussion?

I own a Ferrari 458, a great car, but own others that bring me as much pleasure in different ways. I always liked a three pedal car except in traffic, but never liked gated shifting. Make any enemies, gain any friends?

Technology forces change. In general, the younger the easier. The more time spent here the more experience and the more to contrast. To some it is visceral, to others intellectual. Big difference.

Our cars are becoming technological marvels, clearly few of us can open the hood and "tinker" any more. We are left to discuss "cleaning" products. Cars are easier to drive so more can claim expertise. A good thing? I leave it up to you. Best

 

uncle

 

The engine and the gearbox and the brakes of a 250 GTO are worse than anything build later, but it seems that nobody cares. Speed is irrelevant to the collectability, so in the future it won´t mind that current semi-auto gearboxes are crap compared to whatever they´ll be making then. The F1 gearbox of an Enzo is far worse than modern ones, and they´re paying 1 million $ for them.

 

I'm talking in relative terms. I'd bet that a 3 pedal Enzo would be more valuable today than the F1 box version, even if there were the same number of each originally made.

 

Like I said, it's not the content of your message but how you are delivering it. You say you have many haters here. If people do literally hate you without ever having met you then that probably has more to do with how you come across rather than your actual argument. So somebody has an opinion that for them the 458 would be just as good or better if it had 3 pedals. To call them out as a whiner is rude and offensive and really I suspect KV is correct, you are just grandstanding for attention. To me the more you complain about it really the more it seems that you are the only one here that is actually whining.

 

To defend The Mayor (who needs no defense), while he has strong opinions, he has a track record of insightful, helpful, and supportive comments...and by his actions likes to foment discussion and debate. This is not a bad thing. Look at this thread: more than 130 comments and 3000+ views since New Years Day. I am frankly amazed at this, including the large number of Chatters who still find virtue in a clutch pedal.

 

Don't be silly.

I'd hang out with a beverage and argue and laugh all night.

You don't get into the "all lawyers should be shot" stuff or the "all libs/cons are idiots" stuff.

Talking smack about cars is fun.

You're enthusiastic, although wrong.

Some scotch (on us) next time G and I are in Vegas and I'll show you I'm right.

 

I am a Mayor supporter. Never found him rude. Great asset to Fchat IMVHO.

With 3 sticks and an F1 no whining here. Like em both. Sticks will be harder and harder to come by. And most young drivers don't know how to use them. Sad.

 

Never been a fan of politicians. Especially the self appointed type.

 

Can't believe we have 8 pages of this already. What a boring discussion. I'm off to get the 458 and 330GTC out for a spin.


Onno

 

In the first place, a three pedal Enzo is not possible: that would be out of place like carburetors.

But even if it existed, it´s very debateable that people would prefer it. Back in 1994 they offered the F355 without power steering as an option for the purists. Do you really think that those F355s are more collectible now? Maybe they are, but not because people like them but because almost nobody liked them back in the day so there are only a few.

And anyway, who cares about the value? I thought we were talking about driving cars, not about what the market or the history books say about them.

 

Source? I am unaware of any non PS 355s

 

Yes, I am talking about driving cars. The reason I think a 3 pedal Enzo would be highly sought is I think as time goes on, it would be more enjoyable to drive. Exactly like a a Carrera GT or Ford GT would be less fun if it only came with a paddle system that already feels outdated compared to current DCT boxes. As time goes on, the gap only grows between the old and new paddle boxes, while a well sorted manual remains just that. Anyway you are correct the Enzo is hypothetical. But let's see what happens with 3 pedal 360s and 430s over the next 10 years. I bet they will be in relatively higher demand because they will be more fun to drive. I might be wrong but hey that's my hunch as of now.

 

Interesting little story/test done by Motortrend F430F1 vs Ford GT.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/112_0506_exotic_coupe_comparison/viewall.html

"At the drag strip, we found the traditionally transmissioned Ford far easier to launch and bang off consistently quicker quarter-mile runs to the paddle-shifty Ferrari. Only when we got the secret "cheat code" for a race launch in the F430 did it start to close the gap on our somewhat conspicuously "slow" Ford GT"

I think saying F1 is faster is accurate but it still comes down to the driver.

 

That is really interesting thanks for posting that link. Actually they are saying the FGT is capable of faster shifts than the F430 F1 (16-29 ms vs. 21-29 ms) which I never would have guessed. So yeah, you're right it comes down to the driver. So for argument's sake the FGT probably is capable of faster shifts than an Enzo or Challenge Stradale too? Not sure what the factory claim shift times are for those cars but interesting that it is 15ms for the F430 F1 and they could only manage 21 ms. Likewise I wonder what a pro driver could manage in a 997 GT3 RS for example.

 

It was only avialable in '95 and they dropped it after that as there were almost none ordered. It's the same rack as a 348, so if one wanted to retrofit it'd be easy but no point, really...

In any case, comparing FI, power steering or ABS to a semi automatic is apples and oranges. You're talking about an assist on the same action, not replacing it with something else altogether. Power steering doesn't replace the steering wheel with a rudder and ABS doesn't change the brake pedal or how it's used. A paddle shift transmission completely changes how you shift gears, so it's different.