Countach 25th Anniversario | Page 8 | FerrariChat

Countach 25th Anniversario

Discussion in 'LamborghiniChat.com' started by joe sackey, Jan 1, 2013.

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  1. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    So are we safe to conclude the 25th has lower gear ratios/drop gears?
     
  2. raymondQV

    raymondQV F1 Rookie

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    #177 raymondQV, Jan 4, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2013
    Definitiely, Lamborghini can only provide the new ratio, they don't have any of the old anymore.

    Coming back to the mythic suspension change Munari did, the only difference between 25th and QV is the Toe In and a different shock absorber, both on the rear.
    Unfortunately I can't find the shock specs of the 25th, for the QV everything is documented, but I guess there is not much difference.
    The front is still the same as on the LP5000s, same springs and shocks, suspension settings, all the same...

    Since I changed the toe-in on my car to even more than the 25th I can tell you that this alone makes the car completely different.
    That much to the italian rumours to have changed everything, basically they adopted the suspension to the new tyres and additional weight, perhaps made the shocks a bit softer like the seats.

    I also have the Koni sport of the diablo installed, but tend to say that for road use the original Way Assauto are better, the Koni are nimbler, perfect for the track, but how often does one race his Countach on a track...
     
  3. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    The only change Munari told Pasini last week that he made was "uprated dampers/springs", that's all.

    I agree the toe-in change, and the new PZeros would change the handling significantly. Other than the gear ratios it may be the main difference in the 25th is the build-quality. In any cases the differences are very small, but with sports cars small differences can mean significant differences on the road. I remember in the early days when everyone said the Miura SV is the same as the earlier P400S and P400. As we learned more we realized the differences were more significant than most thought.
     
  4. raymondQV

    raymondQV F1 Rookie

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    Rear: Dampers is correct, springs are the same
    Front: they used the same dampers/springs as from the LP5000s on...

    Less toe in makes the cars much less understeer which is the main issue on the countach, otoh it tends to oversteer under hard cornering. The understeer you could also cure by using Pirelli PZero C on the front, unfortunately these semi slicks are no more available.
     
  5. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    Seems Munari was suggesting to Pasini that the spring rating was different too. I will ask for conformation of this.
     
  6. Bxtech

    Bxtech Formula Junior

    May 4, 2006
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    Just catching up on this great thread. I'm learning a lot about the 25th! Thanks! The pictures of the launch party with Lee and Ferruccio were especially neat to see! That Bleu Speciale color really looks great on this car!
     
  7. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    #182 joe sackey, Jan 5, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Glad you are enjoying it! I love one-make or even one-variant threads because its a great way to establish a resource for a particular model or variant and share the knowledge efficiently.

    Here is another special-order blue 25th (different shade of blue), the car in this post when new - http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=142008760&postcount=174

    Powder-blue leather with dark blue dash/steering/shifter/carpets, not everyone's cup of tea, but then again neither is the Countach!
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  8. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    #183 joe sackey, Jan 5, 2013
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  9. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    #184 joe sackey, Jan 5, 2013
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    In days gone by the thought was that there were just 3 Argento 25ths built: this silver/dark blue RHD car below, the factory's own silver/grey Last car, and the USA-spec silver/red 12670.

    However, with some recent research (even though it is not an exact science) I have established that the factory made at least 6 Argento 25th - which in my book means there are even more in existence. The point is to be open to received verifiable information as time goes by.

    Here is Peter Hay at the wheel of his RHD 25th at Goodwood circuit in 1990.
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  10. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    #185 joe sackey, Jan 5, 2013
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    Perhaps someone can verify, but my notes tell me this 25th is one of the USA concessionaire's press (pre-production) cars so this may very well be the one featured in the September 1988 Chrsyler 25th launch Press Release.
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  11. kmeighannj

    kmeighannj Formula Junior
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    #186 kmeighannj, Jan 5, 2013
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  12. BRAVO-V8

    BRAVO-V8 Formula Junior

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    #187 BRAVO-V8, Jan 5, 2013
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    I have the chance to have 12818 in my garage, it's not my car, the owner is a good friend. The first owner was the Formula 1 driver Gerhard Berger.
    Last year we used the car in a french film "David et madame Hansen, film from Alexandre Astier with Alexandre Astier and Isabelle Adjani, we have to change the rear end of the car as Alexandre want to have "Countach S" at the rear...I made a model from the car at 1/18 to offer to Alexandre, red with black interior with all the film modifications.
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  13. BRAVO-V8

    BRAVO-V8 Formula Junior

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    #188 BRAVO-V8, Jan 5, 2013
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  14. ClassicFerrari

    ClassicFerrari F1 World Champ
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    Awesome pic and story. Love that ol garage :)
     
  15. gday

    gday Formula 3

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    #190 gday, Jan 5, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2013
    No. What we have so far is...

    1) There is no difference between the 25th and QV (and possible S) with gears 1 thru 5.
    2) There is no difference between the 25th and any other countach with the ring and pinion in the diff ie final drive = 4.091:1.
    3) What did change is the transfer gears that are internal to the gearbox and tie the gearbox secondary (output) shaft to the drive shaft. (As a side point, these "transfer gears" form the basis of the VT coupler in the Diablo). The change reduced this mesh from a ratio of 1.0357 to 0.9714 and thus would have shortened "everything" - resulting in increased torque, quicker acceleration at the cost of reducing top speed.

    What is the critical point here is that the change to the transfer gears occurred towards the end of the 25th production i.e. 25th's with VIN serial number 534 and lower had the taller gears - which from my math represents some 80% of the 25th cars. And if I have this right it could explain some of the top speed discrepancies we have seen reported.

    Also note that the taller gears were discontinued completely i.e. QV and 25th owners needing replacement gears can only source the shorter gears.

    Makes you wonder why this occurred - given it occurred so late in the game.

    -mick
     
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  16. jollygood

    jollygood Formula 3

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    This thread is definitely getting better indeed.
    I like the tech stuff. Thanks for posting the above.
    What I find strange is that it is so hard to get real facts on all mechanical issues and parts!
    I wonder why it is so?
    And that part numbers are same (ref Joe) for various tranny parts on different models QV/25th makes no sense.
     
  17. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    Excellent Mick, thanks for that concise & useful summary.

    The differences are what we want to learn about, and I know there are many with this car.
     
  18. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    Thanks for sharing! Awesome 25th, I have some images of it somewhere. I also have an article someplace of Gerhard Berger (who owned this car whilst he was a Ferrari F1 driver) extolling its virtues.
     
  19. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    #194 joe sackey, Jan 5, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    It does, thanks for posting. 12670 has finally received a major service and its entire fuel system has been overhauled, along with electrical & AC maintenance, new tires etc.

    I recall a pic of it performing stellar family duties as a capable grocery getting car :)
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  20. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    Mick, how are you arriving at car # 534 being the dividing line?

    This is an important distinction, so, are we speaking about USA cars only?

    Thanks.
     
  21. gday

    gday Formula 3

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    Well... I have this ouija board....

    When the official lamborghini parts book was updated with the newer gears, it has this exact serial number noted as the cutoff. Old gears have abbreviated words to the effect "finished with VIN number 12 534" and new gears reference VIN 12 535. Both RaymondQV and Chad noted this too. There is no reference to a market limitation.

    -mick
     
  22. jollygood

    jollygood Formula 3

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    This rear view pic must be one of the best of a 25th ever.
    You get all the defined lines of the bodywork and the added scoops etc.
     
  23. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    #198 joe sackey, Jan 6, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Thanks, that was all I was asking about - your source (& that of Chad, Raymond et al).

    There are a number of sources, some are not official, but the parts book can make anyone knowledgeable simply by reading it.

    These cutoff chassis numbers are interesting to me, fascinating actually. We went thorough all this studying the Miura S & SV and learning of all the running changes & updates which the factory would perform on-the-fly whilst production was still ongoing. This has lead to various production "Series" in the minds of the faithful.

    A list of all the 25th changes over previous models is in the offing, as is a list of the running production updates just for the 25th.

    Sounds to me like I relish the idea of a later 25th Anniversario, perhaps from 12550 onwards when all the changes seem to have been completed, based on the theory that the updated cars are almost always better developed.

    Several mechanical components of the car were updated during production. Another example seems to be part number 001420911, the crankshaft, wherein the notes say this type is only valid up to chassis number 12539.

    Then you have a new part number 001428723, valid from chassis number 12540 onwards.

    Specifically what were the changes/updates to the crankshaft at this point?
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  24. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    #199 joe sackey, Jan 6, 2013
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    12818 seen here last year. Yellow (French-specification) driving lamps in evidence.
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  25. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    #200 joe sackey, Jan 6, 2013
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