Shopping for a 400i

Hi Kirk, if you're another lunatic 400 series owner you're very welcome.

First question is where are you in the world - the advice we will all give you will no doubt be very similar but recommending various inspection option will vary depending where you are located.

Russell

 

Here is a pre-purchase inspection checklist that I created. Hope this helps.
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Kirk-

Sent you an email- My list is probably different than everyone else's- since I put a Premium on a car that has NOT sat on a dealer's lot and I am ALWAYS willing to overpay for a car in truly great cosmetic condition.

Enjoy the hunt! There are a half dozen guy searching for these cars right now- But I think everyone is in the "Sub $30K" category.

For me you CANNOT buy a clean, maintained, driven example of one of these cars with no needs for under $30K. I have not seen one.

A car with GREAT paint and an AMAZING interior and good compression and no leaks (Within reason) and fresh TRX and rebuilt rear suspension and rebuilt front suspension and good glass and good trim and good bumpers and good switches and sealed gas tanks and replaced fuel lines and working (REALLY working) front and rear A/C and rebuilt FI Distributors and a fresh distributor cap(s) and new wires and a complete service history is a mid $30s-$60K car.

Just attending to two or three things on that list can eat up $20K in a HEARTBEAT. I think ANY car that has sat for 2-3 years on a dealer's lot will need attending to.

Fabulous cars- "Garage Art" that you can drive every day... Just don't be cheap about it.

 

I couldn't agree more. Most of the 'horror' stories come from those who bought 'deals.' You are buying a car that was never cheap - not to build, not to buy, not to maintain, and not to repair. In fact, it was one of the most expensive of its time.

 

As I near the end of Year One with my $15,000 '83 400i Auto, it's working out OK. I'm sure I broke every rule in the book when buying this off the SF Bay Area Craigslist. But I'm still not underwater even with a big bill for a dozen electrical gremlins (it was $2,300 iirc) and a completely unexpected $3,000 bill for a new tranny.

Nonetheless, I would have been smarter to have held out for a good car in the $30,000 to $40,000 range. I say this because my car's somewhat worn interior will never be as nice as one of these good $30,000 cars you see out there, not unless I spend as much on a re-do as it would have cost to buy a really nice car to begin with. The better overall concept is to find a car with no needs whose seller has already shelled out the big bucks.

 

I completely agree.
I got a good one for $30,000.00 from a friend and it still had minor issues.
Keep in mind that you are not buying ordinary transportation, you are buying a hobby.
It is very satisfying each time you track down and cast out another gremlin.
Greg

 

With these cars it really helps if you are a competent home mechanic as every job costs costs costs as soon as the F word is mentioned.

I paid £10k ($15k USD) for a 1978 400 auto December 2011 and in the last year have spent around £1500 on it in total. Jobs like replacing the starter are common (I recently did this myself) but you will pay dearly for a specialist to do the job.

I've had various electrical gremlins to sort out but everyone on this community is very helpful and usually good advice is not too far away.

I looked at many cars but was very lucky to be in the right place at the right time and got (probably) the best car available for the least money - 37,000 miles, great history and the previous enthusiast owner had it for 8 years and had looked after the car fastidiously.

Now the starter's been replaced it's totally usable, 100% reliable, uses zero oil and water, never overheats and is a joy to drive. Personally I prefer carbs (despite the eye watering, fume smelling clothes issue of getting the car out and putting it away in the garage which my other half calls "that garage smell") but can understand the draw of fuel injection due to the usability factor and better fuel delivery/economy.

I intend to buy a 2nd, manual car soon because these cars get under your skin very quickly but only if you see them with different eyes to the majority of the world - as a thing of beauty and something to enjoy ownership and use of. Running and ownership costs become secondary - I'm not being flippant here and I'm not saying that money for me and most owners out there isn't an issue - it is but like me most will find a way to keep these lovely old cars moving anyway we can.

Don't buy one if it's just an "I fancy owning a Ferrari and these are cheap to buy" whim as you'll no doubt have problems and want to move it on quickly.

Buy the best car you can afford, spend the money to get it professionally checked and DONT be tempted by a cheap car needing lots of work as these will always end up really expensive and still be inferior - i was very careful and have proved that bargains DO exist but are few and far between.

Good luck in your search, I hope you find a great car very soon.

 

Some great advice in this thread so far.
NO F-Car is cheap to run, especially a vintage one, but the return is better, as many of us define it by Character and Experience.

Find a good local shop, with POSITIVE reviews/feedback from people who currently, or recently, have had the same model car serviced for the same maintenance your car requires - A good "A/C guy" isn't necessarily the guy who can tune a V12, and someone who can tune one isn't necessarily someone who can rebuild one, either. Listen to negative reviews, though they will be few and far between, even for a "bad shop"; most people just move-on and don't return to that particular shop without letting anyone know unless pressed, or once you're already in the "I got screwed by XYZ, too" club and it's too late.
The ability to drop-in is a HUGE plus.

For such a relatively old car, knowing what usually has not been addressed and are often overlooked by a cursory look-over:
Suspension bushings
Brake booster diaphragm
Brake hoses
Master/Caliper seals
Clutch cable (a broken one is not fun, but can be "exciting")
Exhaust support rings/isolators
Electrical connections around fuse block and ground locations

Expect to pass on several before you find the right one, whatever your path.

These are fantastic when they're right, to the point that I never stopped wanting one since driving several over two decades ago. As the "family" or "touring" car, it's usable enough to drive often, if not almost every day.

Highmiler is correct is saying : "....you are not buying ordinary transportation, you are buying a hobby."

 

Very good advice from everyone.

Here is an example of a gremlin no one would ever catch during an inspection regardless of how complete.

My car ran fine though I have been chasing an intermittant ignition issue. One thing I did was look inside the distributor cap to ensure all was well. There I discovered the carbon brush connecting the cap to the rotor was GONE; completely vaporized.

My car now runs great with the new cap. The power increase has been incredible. I doubt that any non-owner would have ever taken the time to find that one.

Greg

 

This is an important lesson: No matter how thoroughly you inspect the car, the reality is that these cars are anywhere from 23-40 years old and that means that stuff can stop working or break on them at almost any time. Even a fastidiously maintained car will have many things that have not been serviced or replaced for a long time.

This is part of the territory of buying an old car. You can't get too stressed about it, all you can do is try to make sure that everything that could immobilize the car is looked after as much as possible, plan for additional unexpected costs somewhere down the road and maintain your Gold AAA membership in case it happens while you're on the road.

 

Those of us who wrench on our cars learn something important pretty fast. It is that these cars are factory hot rods that were made out of parts from a lot of outside suppliers.

The engine, manual transmission, rear end, body parts, upholstery and a lot of metal chassis parts are peculiar to Ferrari.

The other parts come from everywhere. The auto trans from GM, the A/C from York, the fuel injection from Bosch, the exhaust from Ansa and on and on.

Buy the best car you can find and have fun with it.

Greg

 

I really don't have any knowledge of these cars, but was looking at the website for this place (which has a very good reputation) and they have one for sale. Looks very nice to me. Maybe you guys are aware of it already.

http://granturismoauto.com/automobiles-for-sale/

Rick

 

That spec for that price is very very good and I have been watching the market for 11 years. The amount of work done represents more than the actual price of the car!!!
Good luck.

 

As with any car, a close, in-person inspection, and professional PPI is a must before determining a value.

I just received my 2013 Sports Car Market Price Guide in the mail and was pleased to see the 400i had a 16% increase in average value over the last year. They also graded it a 4-star car, suggesting that it should outperform the market in value, perhaps as much as 10% in the next 12 months. All good signs for those of us who love these cars. His values were between $19k and $35k with a $5k increase for 5-speed cars.

 

said time and time again........

"The most expensive Ferrari 400i you can buy is the one bought cheap."

 

Schumi, that my friend is an exhaustive checklist. Very well done, and I appreciate you sharing.

best, Paul.

 

When I bought my 400 13 months ago I was worried that the above statement was correct but I seem to have proven that it isn't always so (so far anyway!).

I realise that I was very lucky because, other than a lifetime of hobbyist knowledge, I knew nothing about these cars. I took all sensible precautions and didn't leap without looking so maybe, just maybe there are other great value cars out there (I refuse to use the word "cheap" as it's a highly subjective term).

Before buying this car I would have agreed 100% with you. Having said that, I also never believed in "quick fixes" until 5 years ago when I personally saw a hypnotist cure my son of a very debilitating nervous condition over night so possibly I'm more receptive to positives than negatives these days.

 

I believe somewhere around 160~180psi with no more than a 10% difference between them.
I think leak down is where it's at, I remember David posting this a while back...