Tired of whiney 3 pedal-ers

I agree. It is also important to have excellent examples of the art of both the paddle shifting manual and the manual clutch. To me it is no fun driving a slushy paddle shifter (PDK, R8) or a rubbery or balky manual shift (lots of examples). The Porsche manuals are excellent as are the last Ferrari gated shifters. Years ago I owned a 512BB whose transmission was of course very positive but could not be hurried beyond a certain point. On the other hand the F430 gated shift is a thing of beauty.

 

3 Pedal-ers should not even be posting in this Forum. 458s do not have 3 peddles. Get it?

 

And peddler don't buy 458s

 

I agreed.

The single clutch paddle is usually not great (R8). I found the Porsche dual clutch PDK is almost as good as the dual clutch in the 458 though. You don't like it?

 

PDK is great. Problem is the car looks and sounds like a Porsche (I own one).

 

I also owned a Turbo. I loved the car. You're right on when you bring up looks and sound.

 

I love 3 pedals... u can go kick rocks.

 

Classic whiney response to what should be an intelligent discussion of the benefits of the DCT system in the Italia.

No one says you shouldn't like 3 pedals. So, go kick your own rock.

Just stop busting the nuts of those who see something differently than you.

 

I'm rubber, you are glue, whatever u say just bounces off me and sticks to you.

Classic whiney response.

 

Wow, I'm in third grade again...Fchat at it's finest.

Go back and read the thread. You'll find that no one here is saying a 3 pedal car is stupid or obsolete. It's just different. And, a lot of people like it and are tired of 3 pedal people telling them endlessly that they are idiots for not seeing it.

You're hear for a fight. We aren't. I love 3 pedal cars. I have one now. I'll buy one again. Try to convince me again why I don't like them. Kinda difficult, don't you think?

But on the other hand, I can appreciate why the engineers designed the 458 the way they did without compromise. I can understand why McLaren looked at the same problem and come up with the same conclusion.

So, we like 3 pedal cars. All we ask is stop telling us we don't know jack about what we like.

I don't think that's too much to ask.

 

Yeah, maybe. Althoug I bet the C7 Corvette with both a NA engine and a M7 gearbox will give the 458 fits.

 

Ask Porsche dealers and they say the manual is asked for less and less. The same goes for Vette. Most are auto boxes because most are used as daily drivers.

It's on the way out and has been since the auto box came around in the 50's.

The new manual Vette is a hybrid. It has auto RPM matching/throttle blipping both up and down. You're basically engaging a clutch pedal and moving a stick at this point. You have to ask yourself: what's the point?

Yes, you can turn it off but then you really have to ask yourself what the point is. Are you trying to be better than the computer?

 

When shaped skis were initially introduced, many experienced skiers (including me) dismissed them as being too easy, not requiring all of the skills that we had developed over years of skier miles, not giving the true skier experience, and being a passing fad. Over time, we came to realize that they were better than straight skis -- much better -- and we learned how to make them enhance rather than detract from the skiing experience. Today, it is virtually impossible to buy straight skis.

To me, the DCT gearbox is similar. I was not interested in a paddle shifter at first, but then I actually tried the beautifully executed one in the 458. There is really no question that a car like a 458 is faster and more efficient with the DCT than it would be with a manual gearbox. Most people (admittedly, not all) who try the DCT like it a lot. I expect that a few years from now we'll be wondering why we made so much fuss initially about switching over.

 

If you don't embrace it, technology will run over you.

Sure lots of people miss the horse and buggy. Now it's a novelty.

 

Drum brakes! Drum brakes! Drum brakes! Everyone now: Drum brakes!

I'm actually more upset by these silly TFT "gameboy" displays creeping into modern sports cars. They serve no purpose in many cases other than put flashy computer graphics in front of your nose.

On a GT, no problem. Technology can be really helpful in daily driving and long journeys. But, does a sports car really need a customizable colorful video-like game display graphics instead of traditional dials to be cool today? Gosh I hope not.

 

+1 --- The good news is nothing rockets like my Porsche 997 Twin Turbo. My neck hurts when in launch control. Best Best

 

Oh boy you really shouldn't say what's the point of rev matching downshifts yourself. You were on a roll but that just throws all your other arguments about being an enthusiast out the window. Chevy was smart to allow disabling of the auto blip. Their customer base isn't ready for a 'computer only' option. Your statement that most Vettes sold are auto is also misleading they way you've used it. That 'may' be the case for the base model and in pure numbers, but the high performance Z06 and ZR1 versions are only offered with a stick and 3 pedals. That may change if they manage to source a DCT in time for the C7 Z06.

 

Regular Vettes come with automatic standard. Sticks are special order.

And Z06 and ZR1s are hard to find on a dealer's showroom floor. Most if not all are special order.

 

Let's take emotion out of this and be logical for a second.

So, you have a stick shift C6. And, what do you like about that stick?

Well, you have to judge the speed of the car, the gear your in, the engine RPM's -- and then make a decision on when to press the clutch, move the gear to the right position, match the engine revs, and slide out the clutch in a manner that loses the least amount of speed of momentum while you press the accelerator.

And, this if fun. I won't disagree there. I like it too.

Now, let's take the new Vette's box...

You decide to shift (up or down) and you press in the clutch. The car automatically adjusts the speed of the engine to the next gear as you move the stick. You disengage the clutch and the computer automatically matches the engine RPM's for the least amount of speed or momentum lost.

And, what have you done? Well, you've moved a stick and pressed in a clutch.

Please tell us why this is any different than just using a paddle shift. And, if the car can do it flawlessly every time, what are you trying to prove? That you can maybe at best be 50% as good as the computer most of the time? That you are slower and less efficient than if the car were left to it's own devices?

I fail to see the point aside from that the macho guys can say "well, I have a stick!"


Now, let's look at the purpose of the 458's system (and the Mac if you want to throw it in). It's a PACKAGE involving the integration of the engine management, computer controlled shocks, DCT gearbox, and eDiff to maximize the car's potential for speed, power and handling -- much like a racing car would do.

That's it's purpose. You can argue it's not a good purpose but you cannot argue that the package works... and a lot of people like it.

 

Mayor Bob, FWIW just having some fun and posted with a smile (was laughing actually). I have an 2004 3 pedal spider and just put a deposit on a 458 spider yesterday. Plan on keeping both so I can enjoy the old technology and the new.

 

That's the ticket.

 

No problem. As I said, I think my next car will be a stick (either a Boxer or Barchetta) because both the F1 and the manual have their place in what makes a great the driving experience.

I would seriously consider the new Vette if it had a DCT, a convertible top, and someone could fix the rear end looks in the aftermarket.

 

I feel as if the people "whining" are arguing that they would enjoy the 458 (or any other present/future Ferrari) more if they had a choice to get it with a 6-speed manual. Not that the 458 is a bad car for having a DCT and that the DCT lovers are idiots..

You are comparing wanting a manual gearbox to wanting carbs, drum brakes and hand cranks?.. Some have said that F1 cars (whose sole purpose is to win races) doesn't have manual boxes.. Prime examples of some really bad arguments.
If you can't understand the difference between wanting to make you own downshift and prefering a modern fridge over one from 1960 then I hope we close this thread, fast!

TheMayor, you said in another thread that you didn't care that the MP4 had much more power than the 458, because it's not what it's all about. The 458 is more than fast enough as it is, it has that "it"-factor that the competition doesn't have (and I agree 100%). But isn't this pretty much the same argument?

The manual gearbox has something that a DCT/auto can never have. No matter how good or fast the competition gets, the manual box will always have "it". Even if it makes the car slower. And would the DCT equipped 458 become a worse car if a manual was offered as well?

 

It's interesting perhaps that as much as I love the 3-pedal F430, I don't think the 458 is suited for 3-pedal driving. It's as if there comes a point in the transition from analogue to digital, or as capability and speed increases, that it really doesn't make any sense anymore. Driving transits to a different kind of world where instead of the driver running everything, it is the driver and the technology in harmony. And the transmission is not the only technology, there is all the suspension and brake controls. It is simply a different universe. Maybe I should pick up a Carrera GT....

 

I found cable activated drum brakes and hand crank start fascinating.