I think you should read the response again. According to the post, Vivek didn't buy the car from Ferrari of Scottsdale. There is no reason they have to make him whole. That is like saying that you rented a car from Budget but it didn't run correctly so Enterprise should pay for your inconvenience.
I think Scottsdale Ferrari did the right thing by reimbursing (V Tach) the purchaser of CS in question. I'm sure they did it to avoid a lawsuit and tarnish their reputation and also because they seem like a solid loyal company. They apparently did not know the past condition of the CS (repair to left rear quarter panel and rear bumper replacement). Correct me if I'm wrong. V tach has a right to be upset with them because he thought he was buying a solid unmolested car from a reputable Ferrari Dealer. My problem is; I feel any dealer should do their diligent homework before they post a car with the word NEVER. NEVER been tracked, been molested, painted, driven in snow rain or sun, in a accident and etc. It makes me laugh at the crap they say. The same CS is currently for sale now and this dealer told me the car is 100% all there. No damage and his body man is a pro and did not find a single thing wrong or any traces of paint work. If the work was done perfectly that may be so but I'm sure a paint meter would detect this although its possible. I think Scottsdale Ferrari should contact the new seller before someone has to go thought the BS that V tach went though and I would hate to see a buyer think they got a perfect car and it is not. Heck, if it wasn't for this site and Andrew, I might have been that person. The dealer should be advertising this car as one with past history. Here is the car: 2004 Ferrari Challenge Stradale, $164,900 - Cars.com ZFFDU57A440136348
He didn't buy the car from Scottsdale Ferrari. Scottsdale Ferrari had wholesaled the car to another dealer and then they sold it to Vtach.
Exactly. I think many here have selective reading. In fact, Scottsdale Ferrari appears to have gone the extra mile to help him because they bought the car from him.
My error on thinking that the two companies were related. This does not exclude the fact that Scottsdale Ferrari should do extensive research on prepurchase....especially when it is a specialty car such as the CS. How is it that they did not have any knowledge of accident history whether or not it is on a Car Fax? These car companies are in the business of likely having to know this information. I acknowledge the fact that they bought the car back from him, but it should never have been sold or wholesaled to Scottsdale Lotus in the first place without making 100% certain that this was a NO STORIES car. Why would I want to even entertain the thought that a reputable company like Scottsdale Ferrari buys and sells or wholesales Ferrari cars with prior history and it is not disclosed?? If they thought that the car was a no stories car, then they did not do their due diligence and made an error in representing it as such. If I were the business owner of Scottsdale Ferrari, I would have come to an agreement with the owner of Scottsdale Lotus and the money that Vivek paid for the car would have been returned in full and I know that I would have had a potential happy client for life. It may have cost me a few dollars, but I would have a solid, stand up reputation and the client would probably refer more new clients to my dealership. This is how I look at the whole situation. I always refer my friends (of whom most of them are Ferrari owners) to dealerships that have treated me with utmost fairness and respect in making me a happy client. This is just my view on the whole situation and I will accept that people on here may not agree with my position and point of view. I still think Vivek should have been fully reimbursed for his car; as it was not sold as represented and this is a potential case for a lawsuit where it just could have been dealt with by the dealers learning a lesson from their mistake, whether intentional or not.
Yea I know, he got it from Scottsdale Lotus correct not Scottsdale Ferrari? We wholesaled Lotus the car and afterwards he bought the car from them. I had that in my original post but somehow I left it out when I pasted the cars.com ad. Sorry
Damn....seems like if someone has a nice example CS for sale, it doesnt stay for sale long. Damn, I miss my car. I need a job that doesnt send me on the other side of the world so long. lol
To make matters more confusing, Scottsdale Ferrari and Scottsdale Lotus are TODAY both Penske Automotive Group dealerships. For most of its existence, Scottsdale Lotus was NOT a Penske company and was housed a large flex industrial building near the Scottsdale Airpark.
I did not know that. Thanks for the clarification. Were they both Penske when this took place? Because that would change things significantly.
At that time Lotus was not a Penske Dealer. They were located in the Airpark. Lotus actually sent somebody over to look at the car before they sold the car to there customer in Texas. Lotus just walked away from the deal but we stepped up to take care of the customer even know he bought the car from the Lotus dealer which was not a Penske Dealer at that time.
I can only agree from what I've read here. Heck, I can't even understand why Scottsdale Ferrari stepped up given that they had nothing to do with the sale transaction between Vivek and Lotus. (Yes, I know they sold the car to Lotus, so what?). I've always felt that one should PPI an exotic car that costs six figures. The very first CS I wanted to buy was at a Maserati Dealer...I had it PPI'd and the PPI guy says "you do know its been repaired and has prior damage, right?" Errr...no...the dealer didn't mention that. Shocking! (there is gambling going on here?). I dunno, trust but verify. I think anyone (and there are many) that believes buying from a Ferrari dealer somehow defines a car as "good" or "non damaged/repaired" or whatever is naive and too trusting of human nature. And, I know from experience that dealers often do not check or know if their inventory has been repaired. We may wish they always checked and disclosed. But the world don't work that way. Its good to have high standards, and I have them. I just don't let them cause me harm by being naive. To be clear, anyone that is caught representing a car as clean that knows it isn't is lying and I'll be the first to say "bad". There are LOTS of damaged/repaired cars and even Ferrari's out there. Do your homework if that matters to you!
Very well said! After a PPI, is there room for negotiations on the price with some of these dealers? Do they themselves consider a PPI valid since they didn't do it? Granted, if they wouldn't negotiate or acknowledge the PPI findings that I payed for I wouldn't do business with them. Just wondering if there is any integrity post PPI.
I have never had a seller question my PPI finding in the three cases where I did a PPI. But that is a small sample and I have heard of sellers disagreeing with PPI findings. That is their right of course and reasonable people can and do disagree on what a PPI findings really mean in terms of impact on value. Of course a buyer should adjust their view on the car's worth based on what they find in the PPI. So, "yes" a buyer can negotiate based on what they find (I have). But, again (of course) reasonable people can and do disagree on what should be replaced/repaired and any impact on value. That's what makes a market. I wouldn't consider a seller's response to PPI findings an act of "integrity" one way or the other. A seller can always choose not to sell for what a buyer is offering. I'm not offended if they do
Yes, of course. LOL An Fchatter now owns it... Fchatter bought it from a private seller and not sure whether seller knew of the "issues". I know the guy who ended up wholesaling it because he discovered the mess he was sitting on and I believe Maserati of Sac picked it up.
You may not remember this nor realize it was me..but I still laugh when I recall how you poked fun at me in a thread here 2 years ago about that car: Stokpro: "and some F-chatter is in hot pursuit of a storied CS despite being warned, go figure" or something like that. Cost me $280 for a PPI to steer clear of that car...a price I paid to learn to always listen to Stokpro...Thankfully I learned 'o stradale lama
The first person I'm consulting before I look at a dealer or pvt seller about a CS is going to be stokpro. After that, I'll still get a PPI.
I actually don't remember that. I'm glad you avoided a potential mess. Here's what happened with the current owner. Current owner basically said I didn't know crap about CS's, market prices, etc and he knew what he was talking about. Thus, he ended up with that CS and to this day, I don't know if he truly knows of it's history. The only reason I know the history is because one of the owners shared details and pics of post repair work. To be clear, I have no issues with the current owner but it is rather amusing that some would 'challenge' (pun intended) the data I've been collecting for nearly 5 years. I don't know of a single person, resource, dealership that has amassed the data that I have. Fortunately, I get to be selective who I spend time helping. Those that are rude, condescending, don't respond to PM's, etc simply don't get helped.
Reminds me of that certain CS you looked at recently that I had notes on to check the bumpers and door panel. Not surprised it has been for sale for awhile.
Anyone in the market for a pristine, striped CS? PM me if you have any interest in a Rosso Scuderia with factory stripe, red/blk alcantara, factory hi-fi and fire extinguisher, ~8k miles, all keys, books/manuals, toolkit, keys & fobs, all services up to date including recent annual service and major service with belts completed last spring.
