Was this vehicle built by MTI, Teledyne or Pioneer Manufacturing? There is something I just can't put my finger on.....
I noticed a couple of the variances too but I think this brush bar COULD be the same one pictured. Roy's pic looks like it is the frame of the final bar without the protective plate and winch bolted to it. See attached pic. The tow hook brackets are bolted to something. The holes appear to be in the same position as the original pic, making it quite possible that the plate and tow hook brackets were bolted to the frame of the brush bar, not welded. It's a very interesting project. Looking forward to the finished product. Image Unavailable, Please Login
My question would be why this pic was put up on post #63 as a teaser pic when this is a cropped pic of the original. I may be confused and this was supposed to be a pic of the original to connect it with the pic of the wheel above it?
If you look at the black frame tube that continues down from the tan top bar of the winch bracket, you see that it runs straight down. The lower tube on Roy's vehicle runs down at an angle. So this is not the same bracket.
I am wondering if it is a reproduction or maybe it was a vehicle built by a different company from the same plans to see who could do the best job.
Ok, that would make sense. Were they all supposed to have been made by the same shop? Because even though this one looks very similar, it does not look like it was made by the same tooling or process as the Geneva model. I would think if they were all made by the same shop, all of the pieces and bodywork would look the same.
Considering these were prototypes, its hard to say what kind of running changes were made to parts or assembly process. Are the original photos here of the Geneva model?
Thanks for all the comments and questions. I must say that some of the responses or just comical at best..."kit car"..."re-production"...serious...for one second do you really think I am trying to pull off a fraud here in PUBLIC and document all my "Fraud" accusations...for ever and ever here in writing.."serious, think about it...I want to damage myself and my reputation for ever..get real.. So now that we have that out of the way, some updates. Pictures can be very deceiving in one deminision, different years taken, different cameras and quality, different angles, lighting, different distances..etc etc..so I won't put much stock in comparing then and now photos, they are just references. You also need to keep in mind that many hands were in this vehicle, EVEN while it was in Europe with Lamborghini as well as after it came back to the USA and was sold to Teledyne..so there are some cosmetic changes that are being corrected as best as possible back to its original state as designed by MTI for Lamborghini. The fact is..with my reputation and full documentation to support it...this is the one and only CHEETAH built for Lamborghini with THEIR money under contract between Lamborghini and MTI signed on January 20, 1976 in New York City by then president of Lamborghini Rene' Leimer and chief engineer Dr Franco Baraldini. This all started in December of 1975, when Chrysler, who was supply at the time auto transmission to Lamborghini, tried to have FMC develop further the XR311 at the request of Lamborghini through Chrysler. Baralindini travelled to San Jose in late 1975 to pursued FMC further to work with Lamborghini. With no success, Lamborghini was able to persuade several employees of FMC to resign, creating their own company MTI, to further develop and build a better vehicle then the XR311 for Lamborghini. This was completed and in place with contracts between MTI and Lamborghini by late January 1976. Side note: this is where's the lawsuit between MTI and FMC came in...which was dropped by FMC in December 1976 and dismissed by the Judge on January 06, 1977...as well as MTI counter suit against FMC. First payment by Lamborgini for the contracted project was made on April 14, 1976 via the venture capitalist Francis Von Buren of Switzerland. A letter of guarantee for payments of phase 2 and 3 of the contract was provided by Lamborghini via a German Bank. May 16, 1976 a contract of Errata Number One, requiring purchase of life term death insurance on the upper management of MTI was done, with Lamborghini the sole benifecary pay out. On January 26, 1977 Lamborghini, signed by Rene' Leimer, entered into a further Confidentiallity agreement with MTI. Today was an amazing day to spend with the principles of MTI, their knowledge, their files and files of documentation and pictures was truly more then I ever hope for. The video interview was both historical as well as informational and sealed the question of IS THIS THE LONG LOST CHEETAH.? The finding of the production number affixed to the vehicle by MTI, in a location we had not discovered till pointed out to us...well to say the least left no question as to where this vehicle started out at..and what we have. It is the CHEETAH that has undergone some cosmetic changes and lost some of its cosmetic original parts in the past almost 40 years...but it's DNA and soul and heart still beats on..and corrections to minor cosmetic refinements will bring back as close to its original state as can be done in today's world. Will it ever be 100% every single nut, bolt, paint chip as it was in 1976? No..but as stated today by the founders and builders of the CHEETAH for Lamborghini back in the day...when asked on film and in writing...a solid response of. "This is our CHEETAH proto-type we built for Lamborghini, the one and only ever produced for Lamborghini and provided to Lamborghini for display on the Geneva Auto platform. More to come as and when we are ready to release. The vehicle is not for sale, nor is it being offered for sale at this time. I am sure there will still be the nay-Sayers...such is life...
"the vehicle is not for sale nor is it being offered for sale at this time." ok...understood what you said the first time. however, while it may not be for sale on this day...it will be for sale once you have built out "your pedigree". when it is for sale, it will still not be a lamborghini.
You are 100% correct, the original Olds product tail lights as put on the car by the original builders here in San Jose..also as documented to us, you will note the front small amber turn signal lights are from a period correct Jeep/military product they secured back in the day as well.
Correct...but it has never been said it was a Lamborghini..it was however paid for, developed for, built for and displayed for Lamborghini... And the evolution of this to the LM001, which also had the Chrysler motor and on into the Later LM trucks is oblivious to the naked eye as it was further developed and put into production. I am sure there are those that will say not, and there are those that will say yes.. It will always be a vehicle with controversy to surround it...
You and Mick are both correct..but let's not mix water and wine here... There was only ONE Cheetah made for Lamborghini....then after it was sold to Teledyne by MTI..to their knowledge there were at least 3 others in different stages of production by them and Pioneer for Military testing...that were "take-offs" from the original vehicle.
Neat stuff...but there are a lot of holes to plug. The differances between what Roy has, compaired to the original seem to be quite significant. Time will tell I guess...
I had always heard that the LM001 used an AMC engine. Did they switch to the Chrysler engine at a later time after Chrysler bought into AMC? FWIW: I was not accusing anyone of fraud when I mentioned the possibility of a reproduction. I was looking at the possibility that someone else made a replica of the Geneva vehicle shortly after the auto show and this may be what Roy found. I was not suggesting that Roy had this made up to try and pass it off as the Geneva vehicle. When someone posts up a subject with a lot of unanswered questions, it is only natural for people to try and find the truth. Don't get upset just because someone makes a suggestion as to how all of this came to be and you don't agree with it.
+1. I thought the thing was destroyed, I think I may even have a blurb about in an old car magazine. Obviously stranger things have happend.
I don't really feel like going back in the thread again but wasn't it said, maybe by joe, maybe others that the Geneva vehicle was destroyed or permantly disassembled? I do not believe, even with documentation ( that can be created or falsified for the purpose of selling it to Roy or any potential buyer) be it paper, video, or audio, that this is the Geneva vehicle. I think it is one of the other, or (hopefully not) one of the one built by a totally different company. Joe was offered the vehicle before Roy, he asked for documentation, none came. The months between Roy and Joe, surprise, now there is documentation.....the seller has to come up with something as he/she/they knew that no one would buy without documentation. Not that anyone cares what I believe or think, just my gut feeling. and, yes, you are correct.......an AMC moto
