Not all Lamborghini's were built in the "Lamborghini factory" how many lamborghini bodies came from Bertone? WHY is there is there even a question here if this is Lamborghini or not? So can we all agree, A) Is this a Cheeta .. clearly YES B) Are there more Cheeta's that survive.. Clearly NO C) Is there a 1/3 or 1/4 chance this is the unit that was displayed at the show? Yes D) After 40 years is there a chance parts were changed on this unit even if it was the show car? Yes E) Is there a chance other original parts that do not look or match the photos of the show car could have been put on or taken off this unit, and still exist? Yes parts is parts. So can we all agree on those statements? Bonus points F) If the car was on the stand at the show is it worth more? Questionable at best there is only one so it is what it is, worth it. G) Why on Earth is there an argument on FC about this rather then a celebration that there is a Cheeta left? H) The Cheeta touted by Lamborghini and toy companies around the world as a LAMBORGHINI. Does that not make it Lamborghini as well? I am sure there were royalties paid from the production of the toys we can all bet on that. Follow the money if Lamborghini was collecting money from the design or the use of their name and logos in the sale and promotion of toys that look sort of like this you can bet your bottom dollar they considered it a Lamborghini. So is the Cheeta Lamborghini as far as marketing and promotion is concerned? YES! Lamborghini related toys at LamboDieCast.com LOL even the SMURFS had a Cheeta Smurf Action Toys Burago Smurf Jeep Burago Smurf Lamborghini Cheetah Burago Smurf Lamborghini - Smurfs Gallery
BY the way.. "The Cheeta Lives" is accurate Roy has "THE" Cheeta, can anyone point to another that exists thus "The" as in singular would be and should be considered to be a totally true statement. I WANT MY RIDE IN THE CHEETA!!!!!!!!!! (note I said MY ride as if there is any obligation to give me a ride, assume the sale always assume the sale) And Im bringing a G.I. Joe just sayin,
I agree with you...never said the wheels are correct, they are not..they were after market wheels put on by the past owner as he drove it around his upper Michigan property...and that is why they don't match and cause for the suspension to look, as it is, with a wider track..they are 10" wide incorrect wheels..the roll cage is correct with the exception of new weld points made by Teledyne for military reasons, which of course is documented as well, the lights in the rear are the same, the flat black paint has worn off of the painted chrome about 90% over the years...again, pics will show some of it left...but it to will be restored to the correct look..the twilight itself is as it was in 1977. You are incorrect on the body parts...they are the same, they have been altered as far as the way they were secured with clips to the body, again documented as to why for military change, they also will be corrected..the gas pedal etc, the gas/water cans, the front pieces are 100% correct...as stated earlier, pics are not accurate to same distance size etc to...as an example the gas pedal is just laying against the fire wall...it is not completely mounted as we are going through the restoration. The seats were changed as the original ones were use plain worn out, we were lucky to get the original ones with the period correct frames as well as the period corrects side doors etc etc...they to will be restored with period correct material as well. The motor, drive train, frame...all other is correct..and when revealed and checked for ID markings it will be quite evident. However there is no title to this vehicle, never was, but there is quite a bit of documentation to numbers affixed to the vehicle as required when it left USA to Geneva, as well as recorded engine and drive line Numbers to document the vehicle for customs clearing as a domestic item, not a military item when it shipped out. I think once you view it, that is if you come to Monterey, and spend time reviewing the vehicle and all the documentation..your thoughts may change..and if not..again all it needs to do is satisfy me...which it does..
Here is a picture, taken in the last 30 days...of the Odometer of the vehicle..it shows 1340 miles, 20 miles more then when Joe spoke of it...miles that have been put on it since we acquired it and drove it prior to starting the restoration...I took it out and went to In-N-Out driver thru with it and did some minor off-roading as well..then under the knife it went Image Unavailable, Please Login
Umm Roy you forgot to mention MY ride.. Are you going to have it at Quail or Concorso? I will be at Concorso so a ride while you place it I can then say I rode in a Cheeta off road as well double bucket list. LOL
A spot at Quail at a Lamborghini stand was confirmed this last Friday. Then another location Saturday day and nite, that has yet to be confirmed...however keep your eyes open as it will be driven around the Monterey area the entire week and weekend...at least I am planning on that.
I dont know why I have not asked this prior...but it has come to me now so here it is: Joe...why bother even providing any documentation here..or in the future for you to review..after all...no matter what is provided..you have made it very clear..this has nothing to do with Lamborghini...has not history or signifgance to Lamborghini, so is of no value to you and any of yuour clients. If this is the case as you have so strongly maintained...why in the world would you have even entered into a conversation with the selling party when they contacted you...and further more..why would you even have continued to call them and try to obtain any documentation as you stated.. after all as you maintain..it has nothing to do with Lamborghini...so why even bother with little old me and this project that has no sifnifigance, history or ties to Lamborghini? Just does not add up....
Look forward to seeing it at Quail. We'll be there with P 4/5 Competizione. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Ok chaps enough of all this claim and counterclaim....let's try for some clarity here. The Lambocars article says ....“MTI decided to sell the entire project to Teledyne Continental Motors” …who…”actually started building three more prototypes in the Cheetah project, but when Lamborghini decided to cancel their Cheetah project …..these additional units were left unfinished. The photos of a dark painted Cheetah prototype show in fact one of the three latter units, this one was the closest to completion, but still lacked rear view mirrors, the front winch, windshield … Do Lambocars have the story wrong or am I missing something here? Here is the link to the article Cheetah - the STORY on LamboCARS.com
The lambocars article brings up many good points, namely, the Geneva car was alleged to have a body made of fiberglass while the "other" car has a body made of steel?
yes, what is wrong with this printing from LamboCars...is when it was sold to Teledyne..there was NO connection or further work or talks or anything with Teledyne and Lamborghini..none at all...Teledyne aquired the Cheetah program in an effort to further its hopes of gaining a US Military contract with their versions of the Cheetah...which were enginered off of the orginal into...as best is known and recorded..and ambulance, a troop carrier and a missel launcher fast attack vehicle. They also made changes to the ORIGINAL Cheetah..as period pictures show....such as military black out lights, , differnt roll structure as well as adresssed overheating issues of the rear clam shell..and a lot more...so it had multiple changes made to it...as you can see.. The Green one, shown here and on LamboCars..is that vehicle even AFTER it went under MORE changes when the owner bought it from Teledyne at employee auction...painted it, new wheels, new seats, cosmetic changes etc etc... Now I have it and am doing a "Restoration"....to the orginal..not a "Recreation" of the orginal...just as so many OTHER restorations on multiple cars of all makes and years are done every day..it will NOT be 100% orginal...after all they are only orginal ONCE...but it will be an accurate RESTORATION of the orginal vehcile.
some corrections from LamboCars..per Rodney's interview this last Friday.. Due to the well-known financial issues at Lamborghini during development of the Cheetah at one point MTI decided to sell the entire project to Teledyne Continental Motors, including this original prototype at the time Lamborghini was still involved. Teledyne actually started building three more prototypes in the Cheetah project, but when Lamborghini decided to cancel their Cheetah project because a military related customer couldnt be found, these additional units were left unfinished. NOT TRUE, LAMBO HAD NOT MADE REQUIRED PAYMENTS AND IT WA SOLD FOR MONETARY REASONS ONLY...TELEDYNE HAD NO CONTACT WHAT SO EVER WITH LAMBOEGHINI The decision to use an American made engine was naturally made to improve chances of gaining an US Army contract, but it soon became obvious the US Army wouldn't invest in anything built outside the United States, and the Cheetah was rejected for military use early in the process, many sources state the prototype was tested in various desert runs, and subsequently crashed during one of those test but we now know it was only demonstrated and never lost in a crash. NOT TRUE, SOLE REASON FOR THE USE OF THE CHRYSLER MOTOR WAS TO GET IN BED WITH LAMBORGHINI AND CHRYSLER AS CHRYSLER WAS PROVIDING AT THE TIME AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSIONS TO LAMBORGHINI FOR THE ESPADA AND SUCH..CHRYSLER SUPPLIED THE MOTOR AND TRANNY ETC ETC TO MTI FREE OF CHARGE, IN HOPES OF A SUCCESFUL JOINT VENTURE AND FURTHER SLAES OF THEIR ITEMS TO LAMBORGHINI IF THIS CAME INTO PRODUCTION. HAD NOTING TO DO WITH ARMY. THE CHEETAH WAS NEVER PRESENTED TO THE ARMY OR ANY OTHER FOR VIEW AND OR TESTING BY MTI OR LAMBORGHINI.
No we have not..we have a few close sets...but cant find an correct builder that is at a cost of less then 10K!!! FYI here is the e-mail from the orginal builder that is asiting us in all the areas of restoration of the project...we DO HAVE the orginal tires as were on the vehicle in Geneva Handy wheel and tire data attached. Apparently, the company that made our custom Cheetah wheels has gone out of business. You will have to shop around to find something close, or a small place that would custom make them per the photo. Enlarge portions of the digital photos, and tell them you need 15 X 10 heavy-duty rims, centers to match the photos, with a backspace of TBD. The overall width (OAW) of the Cheetah is supposed to be 88.0, which in this case is tire outside sidewall to tire outside sidewall to protect the body in brush country. The current wheels have too little backspace. To determine the required backspace increase, measure the current OAW and subtract 88.0´from that width. Divide that number by two, and add that amount to the existing wheel backspace. That will provide an OAW of 88.0 and should eliminate the tire rubbing on the front sheet metal in full steer. Have one wheel made. Then mount that wheel and check clearances on the inside of that wheel to the suspension, steering, drive half-shaft and fender parts at full jounce and rebound travels in all worst-case steering angle positions. Solve any interferences with at least 1.00 clearance, on both sides. Then have the other three wheels made like the first one. I recommend making at least one spare wheel while you are doing the others. I also recommend making another four wheels so you can mount some new Mickey Thompson tires for everyday travel, and travel to and from car shows etc., and save the original Baja King tires for display purposes only. Keep these tires out of the sun, and away from ozone rich atmosphere (smog) to minimize checking and aging. If you want my recommendation for which Mickey Thompson tires to buy, let me know how you intend to use them. Rod
While I believe the body changing story for different configurations, I can't understand why it looks like the wheelbase has been changed? Has the wheelbase really been changed or is it an illusion?
It has not been chnaged or altered at all...correct measurements and verification with period correct documents as well as the builder on site with the vehicle were performed and are correct... The ridiculous oversize in-corerect wheels and offsets is what is wrong..if you view the current wheels ansd the period correct wheels I posted, you can see how DEEP the inswet of the current wheel is, by well over 3 1/2 inches the wheels sit OUTSIDE the correct position of the orginal wheel and mounting.
Here are two other period correct photos...never before released..just a few of the many many period correct documents we have obtained in our restoration project from the orginal builder. One is off the Cheetah, after first assembly in San Jose and prior to paint and shipping off to Geneva..as you will note..even in this pic..multiple cosmetic items are NOT present that were present once it reached Geneeva...just an on-going change after change after change.. You will note on the engine pic, as pointed out to us by builder, it was his heat shield design with aluminum and aspostus that is easily seen carried over into the design of the LM 002 and final production...just another sign of Lamborghini's use and reverse engineering of this vehicle for their further develpment once the Cheetah had been taken back by MTI for non payment... FYI, I have also learned that the Lamborghini hood pin as well as the script in the back was shipped to MTI in San Jose and placed on the vehicle PRIOR to it going to Genneva per Lamborghini's request..the name CHEETAH was coined by the orginal builder...he named it this as it was the only CAT that does not have retractiable claws and its top land speed for a Cat....and he felt his design of the run flats fit this name as well as the 105MPH top speed he had acheived in testing the vehicle in the San Jose area in the first days of its life.....at first, Rene' thought the name was for Tarzan's monkey friend Cheetah...but agreed to the name after it was explained it was for the Cat not the Monkey.. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Roy, I believe that you are mistaken here, the original Geneva truck appears to have taillights that were modified late 60's era Oldsmobile lights, the lights on the car that you are restoring appear to be completely stock Oldsmobile lights as evidenced by this photo where you can see that the original Oldsmobile "points" had been taken off on the Geneva truck... Image Unavailable, Please Login
I understand that the wheels are incorrect and have the wrong offset, I'm not referring to that measurement, I'm referring to the distance between the front axle and the rear axle. The truck that you are restoring appears to have a slightly shorter wheelbase than the vehicle pictured in the Geneva and early test photos. Is that a fact or simply an illusion created by different photo angles?
No they are correct..they were hand sprayed FLAT BLACK by the orginal builder in the day, as he pointed it out to us this last Friday as well..and they still have some old paint around them..but since over 40 years have been worn off...so they will be re-sprayed correctly per orginal builders comments to restore them to their orginal look..
The points are there on the geneva truck which you can see playing with the pics brightness... -mick Image Unavailable, Please Login
Considering the "historical significance" of this car, don't you think it's well worth the $10k to get the period correct reproduction wheels? Perhaps I was mistaken but I seem to recall reading somewhere that the tires were developed specifically for the Cheetah, come to find out based on your post that they were nothing more than off the shelf Mickey Thompson Baja King tires?! FWIW, I for one hope that this is the real deal and that you bring it back to as close as the original configuration as possible. While it's role in Lamborghini's history is debatable, it has a certain level of sentimental value to me as I grew up playing with an early 80's Tamiya 1/12 scale model of this very truck.
Oh dear more of the same ....let's try again....Yes/No answers would be appreciated!! 1/ Did Teledyne start building "three more prototypes"? 2/ Is the car you are restoring the "dark painted Cheetah prototype" in the pictures? 3/ Is the car you are restoring the MTI Cheetah or one of the three Teledyne prototypes? 4/ Do you have proof?
