Advice needed on mechanical issues (or non-issues)

Now that I've owned my 2004 360 w/F1 for about 7 months and put about 1,500 miles on it, I have a few questions about different characteristics/quirks/problems that I noticed with the car. I would like to hear from the experts here if the "issues" that I've noticed on todays drive, as well as intermittantly in the past, are actually issues, or just normal traits of this car.
I don't think any of them are serious, but please let me know if you think that I should ignore the issues, as they are normal. Or should I have them looked at immediately, just mention it at the next state inspection, or wait for the belt service 3 years down the road? Or should I just wait until the suspect part fails?

Here is a complete list of everything I noticed:

1) The oil pressure gauge needle seems to sometimes abruptly fluctuate. Since it is a very abrupt fluctuation (not related to RPM), I was thinking that it was either a bad pressure sensor...or possibly even a normal characteristic?
This is an intermittent problem that I can't duplicate. It looks as if the gauge loses power for a split second, or gets a power burst. It moves about 4x as fast as it would move as compared to if I were to give it a little throttle. It just happens every now and again, and only noticeable when the car is idling. It fluctuates as much as 1/8" up or down.

2) When I first start the car, I hear, what I believe to be,that air pump for emmissions pumping. The issue is that it sounds bad. It makes a loud and rough, grumbling sound, and as it winds down, it sounds like it needs oil or something. I didn't get a recording of this, but can attach if necessary.

3) Every once in a while (maybe 4 or 5 times since I've owned it) while I'm at a red light, the car idles rough and the car shakes. It's not too bad, but noticeable. It feels like 1 cyl. not firing but when I give it throttle, it seems to run 100% perfect. Then it will not happen again for a few hundred miles. I can't get any pattern on this one.

4) When I first start the car cold (it only happens the first start of the day), the clutch will sometimes drag when I put it in gear (F1 transmission). If I restart the car, the problem corrects itself. It seems to happen more often and have more drag when the air temp outside is cold. It will usually not happen immediately. I first back out of the garage normally, then after I sit to let it warm up for a minute or two, it will drag the next time I try to put it in gear whether I am trying to put it in 1st, or reverse. Sometimes if it drags VERY slightly, I can ignore it, and after a stop or two, it will be fine. I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the clutch being cold vs. warm. Or a sensor being sticky when cold.


I haven't been too concerned with any of these issues so far, but I don't want to be foolish either. I like all my cars to look like and run in essentially perfect condition! If they are indeed problems, I would like to fix them, so any advice is greatly welcomed!

 

360?
Oil pressure?

If so, then I had the exact same problem. It was the oil pressure sending unit. Supposedly a common problem.

 

Yes 360, yes oil pressure. I fixed the original post...thanks!
I figured it was that problem. Should I just fix it, or leave it until it gets worse? I usually like to fix even minor things, but like you said it's common, and it will probably keep happening. Maybe I'll change it out at the next oil change. That's should be very easy.

 

Mine too, I have gone down the road with perfectly normal oil pressure and then it goes way near the 140 mark and before I can stop the car its back to normal. Dealer could not reproduce my problem. I would just have it checked with a mechanical guage to make sure its not a issue and ignore it until it gets worse.

Pretty sure i get the same gurgling sound from the motor area, only lasts a few seconds and only when the car is cold from overnight, dealer had the car a week for other issues and claimed to not hear anything.

only rough idling I get is sometimes when i first fire it up for the day (I seem to have fixed that by just putting a battery maintainer on the car, but that is not your issue)

I have not seen that and I have been goign to work with the thermometer reading very low 30's for the last month and the car sitting outside all night, fires right up and no clutch issue.

 

I have some updates, I took the car out again before the snow comes.
First of all, I was able to get a video of the oil pressure gauge. I want to get an opinion if you guys/gals think that this is a normal amount of movement while at idle speed?
The link may not work right away because I think Youtube needs a few hours to make it work:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am1zjD0f4I0]Fluctuating oil pressure Gauge - YouTube[/ame]

I also opened the engine cover with hopes to narrow down the air pump grumbling sound when it first starts. I paid very close attention to the air pump, I can confidently say that it is definitely not the pump. It sounds like some sort of pump, but it is closer to the firewall by the passenger compartment. I can't pinpoint it, but I'm positive that it's not the air pump or the F1 pump. What other pump would come on when the car is first started?
It sounds really bad for the first few seconds that the car is started. I'll try to get an audio recording next time I go out. I tried to get it today, but it screwed up for some reason.

I also noticed a new issue. I noticed that when I turn sharply, the front tires make popping noises as if they are turning at a different radius, and alternately dragging (the alignment when driving is spot on, and the steering feel is great). What caught my attention today (and yesterday), is that the pop is extremely loud and it jarrs the car a good amount. I know that cars will normally skip a little while turning sharp, but it seems to have gotten worse for my last two drives. I did notice, however, that after the tires warmed up, it didn't do it as severely. It was back to the normal (slight) popping noise. This is my first winter with the car, and the last 2 days have been the coldest days that I have taken the car out since I purchased it (30 deg.). Another change was that I slightly over inflated the tires so I can avoid flatspotting while it sat for longer periods of time. Do you guys think that the cold and/or higher tire pressure caused this behavior? If so, is that normal? I didn't try cold tires at the normal pressure to see what happens. I wonder if it can also be that the tires are old and dry rotted. They are 2004 tires, so even though they have perfect tread, I'm going to put new tires on the car in the spring. Normal, or not?

Thanks again!

 

A gauge with low hysteresis will give the same oil pres jumpiness even with steady RPM. Even then that gauge is barely moving and always showing healthy oil pres

 

The oil pressure fluctuation is your sender unit. Located under the oil filter and about a 30 minute job to replace. There are alternative VDO units available that you can use a bush to fit the connection (M18 from memory). I ended up buying the Ferrari part for about £100.

The gurgling/groaning noise you hear a few seconds after start is the air being purged out of the oil cooler (right hand upper intake behind the passenger bulkhead in LHD cars). Totally normal.

The tyres skipping/dragging is again totally normal on full lock at parking speeds. Combination of geometry and LSD...

 

LSD?

 

LSD is the Limited slip differential

I sometimes feel the skip at a sharp turn in reverse, but that is probably since the only time I really make a sharp turn is backing out of the garage.

The occasional idle fluctuation may be normal as well... I notice it sometimes when coming to a stop with the car taken out of gear (i have a stickshift). I figure it's not a Lexus where you don't notice idle fluctuations (or even that the car is running!)- if it's not that bad
it's probably just the way these cars run. I would be more concerned if it gets worse, is bad enough to make the car stall, or if a check engine light comes on.

 

Anthony, it sounds to me that you are saying that the slight fluctuation in the gauge while at a steady RPM is normal. The reason I thought that it may be the sending unit is because of the lack of fluidity (is that a word, lol) of the needle movement. I know that the pressure will fluctuate slightly, but I wanted confirmation that this movement is normal for these cars. It doesn't seem to have gotten any worse since I've owned the car.

Mike, I'm gathering that you feel that the movement is excessive for the gauge, and that the sending unit is bad (which I had also suspecetd). I would love to hear from others as well. I want to know for sure what is considered normal, because even if my gauge is not a "real" problem and can leave well enough alone, I would still like to fix it if it's not working 100% properly.
Mike, you also mentioned about the skipping being normal at full lock. I know it's normal to a certain extent, but the reason I was concerned is that it is not consistent. When the car is warm, it has a little skipping when turned at full lock (from the steering geometry), I know that's 100% normal. What I'm referring to is when the car is cold, I can be backing out of my driveway and cut the wheel at a 45 deg. not even close to full lock, and it's jumping, popping, banging and skidding the front tires. It is the same issue, but MUCH worse than once the car is warm. I don't know if the lower traction from the cold or slightly over-filled tires make the situation worse or not. I know it's most likely a characteristic of the car, but it just seemed excessive so I wanted other opinions from those with the same car and tires. By the way, the car has the stock Pirelli tires from 2004.
As far as the gurgling noise goes. I'll start the car and stick my ear near the intake to confirm. That is great news...darn that's loud though!

Andrew, thanks for the info on the idle. I suspected it may be the car just having computer issues while communicating with the sensors. I'm aware that these computers can be finicky about communication. That's evident in the way it starts running very rough (on one bank only) every so often on the first start of the day, especially if one doesn't wait for the OK light. I know that is totally normal on these cars, mine also did that once or twice in the past 7 months. I'm not too concerned about the slight shake either, since it runs perfectly and there are no CEL warnings. It is a rhythmic shake while idling at a light, exactly as you described. It does not cause any running issues, throttle response is still perfect etc. It's just that the idle is felt...almost like an older american car with a high performance cam in it. Like the other issues, I would like to hear from others if this is normal for ALL of the 360's because if it's not, I would like to mention it to a mechanic next time it's in for something. Since most of the issues that I am asking about are intermittent, I know they can be difficult to acknowlege, but I want my car as squared away as possible.
Thanks again to all!

 

Your cold tire thing is every car - its to do with the traction between tire & cold surface - try a search here or google on ackermann

 

I think you have this right. When did you last change the gear oil and what kind did they put in? If they used Redline NS it doesn't have the friction modifiers and your LSD pack will grab/chatter. Very noticeable in reverse at lock. You can fix this with ~2 bottles of friction modifier or by using the shockproof gear oil with friction modifier already in the oil.

 

I don't mean to be smart but I was the same way...worrying about every noise and gurgle.

It has taken about three years to finally just get in the car and go and not worry.

OF COURSE I am always listening for something that is not the usual noise or feel or whatever but I am not anticipating it.

Enjoy your car...you deserve it.

 

The sending unit fluctuation is not particularly excessive. Mine was very similar when I bought the car and eventually it would not zero with the engine off which meant that the oil light would not come on. The base of the sender has a very small orifice to prevent rapid fluctuation and shock on the internal workings.

With a new sender the pressure is rock steady and sweeps consistently up and down.

The gurgling is definitely air being purged through the system and through the oil cooler as the dry sump lubrication system starts up. I agree it does sound strange though......

 

LOL. I realize that I'm being very picky, and the only reason I'm mentioning these issues is because I am getting more comfortable with the car. At this point, I AM being very nit picking because like I said, I'm just trying to make it as close to perfect and reliable as possible.
I was waiting for some guy to jump in and say "stop worrying put on your big girl panties, and drive that thing". I totally get that, and don't take my post as "complaints" about the car. It's not that, it's just different things I have observed over the past half year, and decided that I would correct anything that needed (or could benefit from) correction. Don't mistake that for me not enjoying, or loving this great piece of machinery! I'm just trying to seperate lust from reality.
I am also ALWAYS alert on any of my cars for any real problems, and I do realize that these issues I'm mentioning are either not a problem, very minor, or stuff that can even be overlooked until they get worse.
Thanks! I am definitely enjoying the car as much as possible! I want to keep enjoying it....that's probably why I'm asking all these questions

 

I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but I just want to clarify. So what you are saying is that the sending unit on my car is not too bad, but it's not perfect either. If I wanted the pressure to read 100% correctly, I would have to replace it. However, it's also fine to leave it and wait until it gets worse (I'm not looking forward to the scare when the needle drops to a dangerous level, and I have to gamble that it's the sending unit instead of a "real" problem).

What I gathered from this is:
It is inevitable that it's going to fail.
Even though I'm picky, I might as well wait for it to get worse before I replace it, because the new one is just going to also fail in a few years anyway.
What would you guys do?

 

1) If it were my car, I'd change the sender. Oil pressure is too important to the engine to have any doubts whether it's reading correctly or not. Eventually it may fail, so why not change it now and not worry?
2) I hear that on my car, too. If you ever figure it out, please let me know. I'm not worried about it because it only sounds that way on cold start-up for a few seconds and goes away.
3) This probably isn't serious but I'd check it out. It might be something as simple as a loose coil or plug. Check that first. Then if that doesn't work, try seeing if you can isolate which cylinder is missing (need an OBDII reader or more likely an SD2 to read which cylinder is reporting a misfire) and swapping the coil on that cylinder with another one. If the miss moves, then you know it's likely a bad coil. If not, I'm out of ideas.

I can't help you on number 4 because my car is a stick not F1. Good luck.

 

>>"stop worrying put on your big girl panties, and drive that thing".

I'll agree with this statement since 1500 miles in 7 months is something i was unable to do when I had my 360. I did 1500 miles in 7 weeks.

Your oil gauge doesn't look too 'nuts' so I wouildn't sweat it to much. Could be a loose wire or could the sender unit. The unit itself isn't too expensive but it is really hard to get off (unless you remove the oil filter --then its much easier). The sender CAN be removed without taking off the filter if you have a good crows foot socket and some patience (and luck).

I forgot the exact detials of your post already but I think you were describing your front tires sliding/making odd sounds. If that's the case, it is probably not so much the LSD as it is the very cold weather in the NY area as of late. I remember driving my 360 last winter and experiencing the same thing you describe. The tires on your car are probably 'summer' tires and when they are very cold AND the ground is very cold they will exhibit some odd behavior at extreme steering angles.

As to the other stuff you describe -- welcome to the 360 club of idiosyncracies and 'personality'. You don't mention your current mileage and/or what exhaust system mods you've made but what you described could be anything from normal to your 'new' normal to some sort of electrical problem or sensor anomaly. By 'new' normal I mean if you put in an exhaust with much less back pressue and didn't have the ECU re-mapped chances are you are running lean now and that can cause different running characteristics, some of which are more noticable at idle. Then again, it could just be 'old' normal too. For example, if you no longer have pre-cats and now have hi-flow main cats, some rough running at idle may have always been there but is just more noticable now because all that 'crap' that used to be in your exhaust -- creating both back pressure as well as 'baffling' some of the burps and hiccups -- is now gone.

 

I just noticed you still have the OEM tires on the car. Dude! They're 10 years old at this point. I'm sure that exacerbates the stuff I just wrote (with regard to temps) because as tires age they loose a lot of their flexibility. Yours are probably quite hard at this point and I'm certain what I described is your problem (if you want to call it one). See if can find the date code on them. Its a four digit number which is the week and year the tires were produced. Its usually inscribed in an elongated oval which is stamped on the sidewall (sometimes its only one sidewall). I bet your front tires say something like 3603 (36th week of 2003) since your car is an '04. The tires could have been produced months before the car was actually assembled.

 

I am jealous...believe me, I only put 1,500 miles so far because lack of time, and lack of nice weather. I am NOT "preserving" the car..I just want to drive the c..p out of it and enjoy it. I couldn't care if I got $5,000 on resale if that is all it was worth at the time.

The car is 100% stock, so there shouldn't be any glitches that aren't considered normal for the car. That's why I asked these questions; I'm not quite sure what normal is yet.

Yes they are almost 10 year old tires! I looked at the date code a while ago, I don't remember exactly, but I think they were made early 2004. That's why I suggested in my earlier post that the skidding along when turning was possibly exaggerated by the cold. I figured they were dry rotted and hardened from the cold, plus the fact that they are slightly over inflated caused them to chatter ridiculously bad. I am guessing that when I put new tires on it in the spring, that are properly inflated, it will fix it to the extent that I would consider it "normal". It's so bad now that it violently hops along while backing out of the driveway, and I'm not even close to full lock on the steering! Once I drive it a little and warm up the tires, it goes back to normal. It will then do a slight chatter if I turn the wheel at full lock, or close to it.

Thanks for all the info! My only concern that appears to be a real concern, is the clutch issue. I didn't get any responses about that yet. It is very intermittent, and it happens only when it's cold. I'm guessing a faulty sensor, or sticky clutch actuator or something like that???

 

I analyzed the sound carefully today, and even recorded it. It is exactly what mike01606 said it was!! (Thanks Mike!). It sounds like it is just gurgling noise coming from the oil cooler. I put my ear close to the oil cooler from the outside and the inside of the engine compartment, and it was very obvious that the gurgling / grinding noise was coming from there.
I attached the recording so you can hear my car. I left it on the passenger seat when I started the car. It is a lot harder to differentiate the gurglling noise from the regular engine noise in the recording, but when seated in the car, it's way more obvious (the gurgling is dramatic).
The noise becomes obvious at about 20 seconds into the video, then at about 32 seconds you hear the winding down sound that it makes. At about 40 seconds it quiets up, and you hear only the "normal" engine sound.

By the way, I checked the wiring on the oil pressure sender, and it feels tight. How in the world am I supposed to get in there to replace the oil pressure sending unit without scratching the finish on the car? I feel like I have to lie down on the engine to reach it. any ideas?
View attachment Engine starting.m4a

 

That pressure sender is tight. Your better off removing the oil filter, and removing the plate below it. Put it in a vice with some soft jaws and replace it. Pay no attention to the gurgling sound. It's normal.

 

Just don't wear a belt (or anything else metallic). As long as the sheet metal is clean, leaning up against it won't scratch it. Also, its a car, and a 10-year old one at that! they DO get scratches sometimes....

 

how cold was it when you started it? when was the last time it was driven (prior to this attempt to start it)? what is the current mileage and what exhaust components have you changed, if any?

 

It was about 32 degrees in the garage. The last time it was started was 2 days ago. The car currently has almost 4,900 miles. I didn't change any exhaust components (neither did the prior owner), it's 100% stock.