THE F70 (LaFerrari) Thread

New on posting here but I've been following for years. Witnessing this feuding debate between the F150 and the P1 reminds me of Handbags at Dawn. I've owned various super cars over the last couple of decades so my view is open and unprejudiced. The way I see it, having been invited to preview both, McLaren's P1 is the superior hypercar. It just depends on what you define as superior. The F150 is a sexy beast, the kind of woman you want to take to bed the first night. The P1 though is the one you want to wake up with. Again and again. It's on another level of technological development and power, much more thought out and advanced, easy to realize the racing influenced content. The F150 tries but has too many compromizes. The P1 moves the bar up, the F150 only does it by bending the bar, and not enough at that. Sorry if this message hurts my fellow Ferrari tifosi but it's my honest opinion. Ferrari will now have to bow down to the new king of road cars...McLaren's P1. I'll still buy both, I'll drive the P1 and I'll keep the F150 in my living room. I for one, seriously hope that McLaren build a lot less than 500 units and Ferrari builds 500 units, I prefer driving cars that are exclusive.

 

Not 100% consistent, in my opinion: it's missing the vent in the front bonnet as 4re4ever just said.

 

Likewise.

 

They were tasty!

I am sure you know that Napolis' Ferrari collection is worth in excess of $60 million. With a collection like that, I am not sure his story with Ferrari is over.

 

Starting to sound almost... Affordable!

Say it is so!

SV

 

If you reaaally wanted ($$$) the car, I think the via Italia (Ferrari's representation in BR) guys would find a way to get it here eventually. And if they didn't you could probably go straight to the factory (again, not just anyone, but then again not just anyone can buy one of these..) and they could probably help you out, especially if you're looking to buy one of the last ones when they are having more difficulty selling them as occurred with the Enzo... I bet you Ferrari is looking closely at Brazil right now as an important not-so-distant-future market. If the right buyer came along I doubt they would say no. Remember there was one gentleman here who owned an F40 and an F50, among other Ferraris.... He's no longer around, but we have other car enthusiasts who are, and who have the $$$...

(I hope one does come down as I live right near the dealership, then I could have a look at it up close...)

 

Brazil is very specific. I think they dont have iPhone down there, and few more tech gadgets.

 

Yes we do. In fact I post from my iPhone from time to time.

The importing regulations are a pain, but Ferrari has official representation down here, which makes importing the cars much easier. The group is called Via Italia, and they also represent Lambo, Maserati and Rolls Royce. Bugatti have representation here, too. So does Aston. Get my drift? Even Pagani had representation here, for a while, though semi-independent. I even currently know of a CLK-GTR for sale here, if you're inclined to buy it... Plenty of good stuff down here, just extremely prohibitively expensive, due to import taxes and downright greed (politicians, importers etc etc).

The fact the F70 will probably have a strict resale discouraged type clause makes it harder for the car to show up here because many times these cars show up at the few independent importers who bring new cars into the country legally, independently from the official representatives. Usually for a car that isn't bought at a factory dealer you can go to these guys and they might procure one for you. Cars like the MP4-12C, for instance. Basically what people in the US would call "grey market".

It's down to the $$. Unless the car isn't homologated for street use here, but considering the Zonda could be sold here, and considering we usually get euro-styled cars, not US-spec cars, I think the F70 would be legal from a homologation standpoint.

There's a handful of very wealthy guys in Brazil who are also car guys and would probably be able to afford the F70, and perhaps even pass the factory's allowances to own these cars. Ironically - though rightfully - I think most of them would rather buy it and keep it at their vacation homes in Europe or the US....

 

I must correct myself. You have all gadgets available in Brazil, but they are not available to ordinary people, since they are crazy expensive compared to World market. I heard that same situation is in Turkey. 458 Italia is reserved for really rich people, since it costs over double the price, compared to EU prices. I assume F12 is pure dram/exotic down there.

 

Awesome!

SV

 

I think much of the discussion is way too blustery...

I think the F70 looks to be pure sex. But the Maccas are awesome too. The MP4s have finally developed into a credible road and track contender and I expect nothing less from the P1. Not the sex of the Ferraris perhaps, but a worthy competitor and a clear design direction for the 21st century. Lots of software bits to tweak. Folks, there will be even more of this in the UI and app-like support that will come to define newer generations of cars. Yeah, you'll be able to play angry birds in your cars one day! (Woof)

The technologies being thrown at these cars now are resulting in the finest examples of combined automotive engineering and art, ever. These are the best times to be indulging in experiencing the pinnacles of car design. We are very fortunate.

Some of the design directions may be short lived and become evolutionary dead ends. In some ways too much technology leads to robotic cars that are no fun at all. But high performance engines and high performance transmissions with tuned aerodynamics and suspensions are leading the way to unconstrained road or track performance. But it is inside the car where we will see the next great leaps in design as the user (driver or other) becomes integrated into the car.

Can't wait to meet it!

Meanwhile core design principles still apply. Light, tight and might will still rule. Ferrari, McLaren, Porsche, Pagani, Aston, Audi, Tesla, I want them all to succeed. We all benefit from the battle.

Else it would be boring...

SV

 

Im thinking the rear fender could be like this
http://i.imgur.com/PFLarF3.jpg
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Thx for posting, very good points. For buyers, McL not selling the whole lot could actually turn out positive!

 

I think different...

 

What are you talking about...?

 

Another one with amazing technology is Koeningsegg. Their "Free Valve" engines have done away with camshafts and their energy recapture system which turns the engine into an air pump for braking and stores the compressed air in a carbon fiber tank which is then available for boost is fantastic and MUCH lower weight than the systems in F70/P1/918 and may be the way to go vs inverters/batteries/and electric motors. Their growth in China is pretty wild.

 

The F1 was significant but unlike Bugatti who designed and made every part on his 30's Bugatti's, Bugatti didn't use Tail lights from the Bova Coach bus, BMW indicator and wiper stalks and ,VW Corrado external mirrors.

A car that can lap an F1 course 6 seconds faster than a GT3 is pretty significant as well.

 

Who cares about the mirrors? The whole engine was derived from a BMW saloon and nobody complained.

Besides that, the car industry was not the same in the 90s than in the 30s.

 

That's the point and I still don't see the Mayor's.

"The F1 is the modern version of 30's Bugatti's."

 

A very profound post, both I think are more technical than anything in the past but I will agree that McLaren will most likely try to dazzle more with technical wonders like they did with the MP412C.

As for being different, thats a good thing because variety they say is the spice of life.

V12 v V8, the history of Ferrari v the newness of the McLaren road car division. Its pointless comparing these cars and I agree I think for those able to own either or both of these, both are likely to represent something really special and both will give motoring joy.

Very sad about the "Blade Runner", even more sad about the girlfriend.

 

I would like to take up the V8 vs. V12 question. I think it is really a TT vs. N/A question. It may be here that the issue of technology vs. driving experience is best expressed. There is little doubt that huge hp gains are available via TT, perhaps with advantages in power to weight ratio. That may tell in track time. But if you want to experience the linearity and response (and the sound) of the super high compression and high winding engine there really is no alternative. I am personally in the latter camp. My experiences with the MP3 did not measure up to the 458 largely because of this dimension. I suspect the same thing will play out with the F70 and P1. So you pay your money and take your choice.... lots of money.

 

Well, I think I agree with the Major in that the F1 was a bigger leap compared to its contemporaries than the P1 (from what we´d seen till now).

Or maybe it´s that back then I was younger and got amazed more easily.

 

True, though less and less so on the gadgets, as we have pricing policies that let people buy something such as an iPhone paying for it over 10 months or so. You're seeing more and more of them... The cars, however, remain in the realm of the very rich...

I was under the impression the last few Enzo's took a little longer to leave the factory than the first batch, or that they were sold to buyers of less "distinction" than the first half, or so... Wasn't the Enzo that Jim purchased, and that became P4/5 sitting unsold at Ferrari after the original buyer gave up on it? I admit I may be wrong on this, however. Basicaly the point I was trying to make is that a Brazilian customer who doesn't meet the criteria (5 ferraris, ex supercar owner etc etc) can probably have a fighting chance to get one of the last say, 100 F70's Ferrari decide to make..

 

I had not heard that Koeningsegg had done away with camshafts. Very cool. What did they replace it with? Rotary valve of some kind or a direct valve of some kind? Love to hear of big evolutionary changes in engine design!

In general I'm not a big fan of the Koeningsegg chassis designs. Got a few photos I took of one at work that looked way too plastic and the fit quality looked questionable.

I don't have any experience with these temporary energy storage systems. In the P4/5 it sounds like you can map the boosts to specific track locations and have enough reserve to make it worthwhile. It is a constrained problem and solution. But on a random road is it possible to run out of reserve because you haven't had enough braking to recharge the reserve? Making it an appropriate solution for a track only??

SV