THE F70 (LaFerrari) Thread

That was also my guess...

 

No, they won't. In fact Ferrari will not even admit you to the XX program if you buy a second hand FXX without their blessing. The F150 was sold out awhile ago as I posted, but there will be post production cars. There are buyers that are still getting 'approved' daily and there are always ways of getting approved if you don't make the 'list' the first time. There is one 'unsold' FXX wrapped up sitting at the factory, but it's awaiting a special project of its own.

 

Ron Dennis never said that, it was Antony Sheriff and he's quite right. When was the last time Formula One teams used V12 engines in their cars? hmm
I do admit that it will definitely not sound as good as the yet-to-be-called Ferrari, but I also think that P1 will sound really good.

 

That really is nonsense. F1 cars don't use V12s because the regulations don't permit it. They haven't used turbos for years either (until next year) due to the regulations. But so what? They also don't have speedometers but that doesn't mean anything with regards to road cars either.

Jonathan

 

Thanks.

I think that comment might actually be about LaColla's render (red car) instead of Wizzoo's render (white car). It's been the "news" of the weekend. The back shot not present there but has been online pretty much anywhere else.

 

Another ridiculous post, the main reason Formula One teams aren't using V12's is because they are simply not allowed to, as the poster above mentioned F1 regulations don't permit V12 engines. Do you think all hypercars should have V6 engines like all F1 cars?

Anyway, we're talking about road cars, not F1 cars. Your argument really doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

 

I agree with you there.

>8^)
ER

 

F1 cars currently use normally aspirated 2.4L V8 engines. The switch to turbocharged V6 engines comes in 2014.

Think for a moment though about why V12s are not allowed. I will give you a hint - it is the same reason we continue to see them disappear from road cars - cost, complexity, efficiency and the smaller engines have an added benefit of a weight reduction in many cases.

>8^)
ER

 

Thank you Erik - Sadly, they seem to think in a very shallow way.

 

I doubt that if the F1 engine regulations were totally open in terms of engine choice, we'd see many V12s.

 

Ferrari's last V12 was 1995 in the 412T.

Currently true but regulations did not see the end of the V12 in F1. When the 3 litre formula was originally proposed there was a suggestion that engines be limited to V8s but Ferrari protested and insisted that V12s should be allowed... and so the rules were written

V10s however dominated as they were a better compromise between compactness (the V8s) and power (the V12s) and as such Ferrari changed, voluntarily, to V10s in 1996. The current V8 formula was essentially created by removing two cylinders from that V10...

SO in a nutshell it appears that the best engine configuration (for F1) is a V10... and thus the Carrera GT was born (the F50 used the engine technology from the V12 cars, the Enzo should have been a V10 though)






And still we are no closer to the F70

 

Not really. The V12 was still considerably more powerful but the reduction to 3 litres made the V10 more appealing consumption and size wise. In a big 6 litre engine though, V12 is a no brainer as smaller pistons mean higher RPM. The modern thinking is that 500 cc per cylinder is the ideal. Enzo and its replacement ought to be V12s!!!

PS: If the future is small turbocharhed V6s, I very much prefer the past...


Sent from my Neo V using Tapatalk.

 

Actually, in 2000 or 2001, I don´t remember exactly, when everybody was using V10s but still were not mandatory, Ferrari started the project of a new V12 engine. Soon FIA outlawed them, probably fearing a rise of costs.

But if Ferrari wanted to do a V12 (probably they weren´t the only ones who had the same idea) and FIA outlawed them it´s because V12s had some advantage over V10s (in 2000, under the 3 liter Formula 1 regs, I´m not pretending to extrapolate this situation to others).

 

Packaging reasons if no others.

 

It would depend really on the performance vs packaging equation; namely the weighting of the regulations on these two parametres. If power was unristricted (no RPM limits, no minimum fuel flow etc), people would probably go for the power of the V12s. If packaging was more heavily weighted in the regs (set maximum dimensions, limited power outputs etc), people would go for the smaller engine.

Anyway, all these have nothing to do with the F70.

 

Closer than many others

 

For the F50, which was also launched at Geneva, the public/press unveiling was at a Ferrari event the evening before the 1st press day. This was in one of the event halls at the Geneva Palexpo underneath the main motorshow halls. Maybe they will follow the same for the F150.

sw

 

Actually, at some point during the 3 liter years, v12's were banned as Ferrari and others (bmw maybe?) were looking at building v12's to get more power. At that point, they were banned to prevent a cost war. If they didn't think they could get more power out of the 12's, they wouldn't have bothered - but just like when Enzo first built his small v12 you can make all of the rotating assembly smaller and lighter to allow higher revs compared to a similar v10 or v8. BRM took this method to extreme with their H16 back in the '60's - and it worked - but the engine was too heavy and fragile. I think it managed to finish maybe 1 or 2 races but was pumping out massive amounts of power. If they had been able to ($$) develop it further to where it shared intake cams between banks to reduce weight and complexity, it may have been a different story.

 

That Special Project FXX has been looking for a customer for a long, long time. JC had a buyer who liked a design he did but the buyer wanted to do it on his road legal Enzo and Ferrari wanted to shift their FXX so it didn't happen. JC used a bit of that design in another project.

 

I'd be surprised if the cars were sold out by now. Meaning already paid for...

 

On the V12 vs V8 vs whatever issue, history tells us that Enzo was a shrewd race manager and strategist. He would come to a race such as the Mille Miglia with a set of V12s and (get ready) 4-cylinder cars. He knew that the 12s had more horsepower and therefore a higher top end. But the 4s had more torque out of corners and were more reliable. So if and when the 12s broke, the 4s would be there to take the flag.

IMO the question is not the number of cylinders, it is normally aspirated larger displacement engines vs. twin turbocharged smaller engines.

 

@ Museo Ferrari:

Ferrari Museum in Maranello: visitors’ record, extensions and as of March: the Supercars

For the last weeks of the exhibition’s opening: free official catalogue with Pininfarina’s Ferraris

Maranello, 14 February – After having set a new record in 2012 with 250,414 visitors, now the Ferrari Museum in Maranello presents itself with a special year ahead: this spring a new wing with 1,000 sqm will be inaugurated to offer more exhibition space, while in early March an exhibition of immense significance will start: the upcoming exposition will be dedicated to the so called Ferrari Supercars, but will talk to the visitors in a contemporary way, because it will be centred around the presentation of the new model, which will take the place of the Enzo and present all the special Ferraris created before those two limited-series’ models to the Museum’s visitors.

Especially the technological content of this first Ferrari hybrid, directly inspired by the experience made with KERS in Formula One, will be of peculiar interest. Furthermore visitors will be able to discover the creative course behind the new model, entirely planned and built in Maranello, with the complex integration of design and aerodynamic solutions.

While waiting for the new exhibition to be opened, in February the Museum offers the possibility to visit the “Great Ferraris from Sergio Pininfarina” exhibition, which exceeded all expectations with its enormous success. Visitors, buying a ticket for the exhibition this month, will be presented with a free copy of the exhibition catalogue, which also contains a poster of the 100 Ferraris created by the great coachbuilder from Turin.

http://www.ferrari.com/english/about_ferrari/corporate/Pages/130204-ferrari-museum-in-maranello-visitors-record.aspx

Gr. Martin

 

Why arent my pockets deep..a one off FXX sounds perfect.

 

Jim, are you speaking of P4/5 or another Ferrari Project? Maybe even the SSC Tuatara? or Bertone Mantide?

 

No this was post P 4/5 and Mantide. This was for a customer who liked P 4/5 and wanted to do a one off on his Enzo. By this time Ferrari was not allowing outside official special projects so it would have gone through them. I was told that Ferrari would not allow another road special project on a street Enzo but would allow a Special project on this unsold FXX. The customer passed and IMO parts of the design can be seen in the SSC. This is also separate from the 10 P 4/5's that a middle east family wanted to order from Ferrari but I nixed although around the same time.

Should anyone want to do an official one off on this unsold FXX I'm sure Ferrari would be happy to do one.