Maserati Khamsin

Armaz,

Sorry to hear about this. I don't know how the post works over there, but it seems that your complaint is with them.

I'll keep an eye out for the part on the internet. Ebay is known to be a scam platform so it won't be any surprise to find it for sale there.

That's the best outcome, Jack. Fasten the extra set to something very large.

Carmine

 

I notice that the asking prices are somewhat higher in Europe than in the USA, even considering that these seem to be very nice cars:

http://www.classicdriver.com/uk/find/4100_results.asp?bsubmit=true&lmodelflag=10383&lmanufacturer=10080&whatbutton.x=0&page=0

Are the K's actually going for that much?

 

Hi Carmine,

The same as with all real good cars or well restored cars, not only Khamsins: they are not advertised and change hands between real enthusiasts for considerable higher sums of money as I see in adds. Too many of these are just cosmetically done up.

Ciao,

Bart

 

I've heard a couple of ideas for why certain categories of cars sell for more, when adjusted for currency valuations, but honestly I'm not sure anyone really knows except when it's something directly attributable by geographic location. Examples of this would be RHD cars or muscle cars in the USA. With those cars which an international appeal I think it gets a bit mystifying. When it comes to the Khamsin in the USA on a historical basis it was a car never well received here and until recent years they languished here at relatively low prices with maintenance that matched. The same could be said for the Bora with the Merak selling in higher volume originally but it too fell into the downward valuation spiral. Maserati's in general weren't as desirable from the mid 1970's till rather recently. I suppose one could point to a variety of factors for that. The oil embargo of the early 1970's certainly hit Maserati hard when they were introducing the Bora, Khamsin, and Merak. They weren't alone but Ferrari always did better. Lamborghini has had a very tortured history as a marque here. Those 1970s super cars also fell into downward spiral votex. They've done better more recently with the Miura having a spectacular rebound and other models ARE doing better now but there too one can see higher ASKING prices in Europe than over here for some models. Is it a currency exchange issue with the US dollar being so low for 10 years now that cars hear look to be quite the bargain? Do these cars inherently appeal more in the geographic regions where they originated? I can observe some anecdotal evidence for both those ideas.

What metrics are you using to back this idea that advertised cars tend to be quick fixups and the really good ones only change hands, at higher prices than even we are seeing here in the USA, amongst private parties? Since those would be private how do we actually know?

Auctions are public but fraught with all sorts of shady issues. I always cast a scant eye on sales from those if they seem unusually high all of a sudden. There are just so many factors that can come into play that I think it's worse than predicting or explaining the weather.

Bad implementation of the new bumper technology by Maserati, they weren't alone, in the 1970's certainly didn't help either. It remains to be seen whether the US car enthusiast ever embraces the LHM system enough so that it's no longer a deterrent towards sinking a sizable piece of capital into these cars. Some people are just off put by how the brakes and steering feel on these cars. Citroens never sold well here either ...

 

Hi Bart I agree so many cars are painted and trimmed and called restored , I call them refurbs.

Sad really.

The three cars in the link Carmine sent have been for sale for quite some time.

The Market for good cars is word and mouth which is interesting as it keeps the true valve hidden.

Graeme

 

Bart, that's the best way really. Face to face. The buyer and seller get to measure each other as well as the goods for sale. Possibly they already know each other or a colleague makes the introduction.

Bob, don't get me started on that. For collector cars Ebay accommodates fraud by providing a venue for dishonest sellers and ignorant buyers. And the live auction houses here in the USA are completely ridiculous with the shill bids. I don't know why any legitimate enthusiast would do business through any of them.

Graeme, here is the USA they don't even bother with the trim, (much less lapping the valves). If the subject cars have been for sale for a while then that's not so far out of synch with what's going on in the USA. Mind you, if the cars are really done right I think the prices are quite reasonable.

Again, I believe that the word-of-mouth advertising between genuine enthusiasts is the best way. There is still room for dealers -- as long as they themselves are also enthusiasts.

 

If and I do mean if the car is generally in good condition and then gets a good paint job and some interior work why is that sad? If they misrepresent it as a nut & bolt restoration well then I understand but you usually know that pretty quickly when looking at a car.

I know of plenty of people who own cars such as I have just described and they have owned them for a while, used them regularly and they're well sorted. I've also seen nut & bolt restorations where the car doesn't really work right because they never solved the car's issues to begin with. Not all of these cars were delivered new from the dealer working properly. Probably most did not but that's just a guess.

I know of a few cars that have been traded several times over the last 10 years, seen them up close and they don't ever seem to get completely fixed yet the price continues to go up.

It's just really hard picking out the good ones ...

I think it's encouraging seeing to many complete restorations of Khamsins but I also have great respect for what Jack is doing with his. That's going to be a nice car when it's finished being sorted.

 

Agreed. Jack, you've got a lot of patience but you're going to wind up with a great car.

 

Today the postman delivered my rebuilt seat hydraulic cylinder and a couple of joiners from Will in Salt Lake City UT.

This will fix the pool of green stuff under the seat

Cheers

Mark
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Hi Carmine

The Khamsin, Bora, Merak and I think Late Ghibili and Indy's use the ignition barrel from a Fiat 124.

Graeme

 

Thanks, Graeme!

 

Hi all,

Do you think this car needs new rear shocks and springs?!

Maserati Khamsin - Barcelona, Spain (11-2-2013) | Up your spot

It is AM120US1100 in Barcelona, Spain...I have seen photos of it several times through the years it keeps sinking and hope there won't be sparks under the back end the next time someone photographs it!

I am not in touch with the owner and he probably has no visual reference of how a K should sit on its wheels...

best regards,

Marc

 

Hi Marc,

If the wife was that heavy I would get rid of the wife and keep the car....

Ciao,

Bart

 

Well, it's pretty obvious that there's nothing heavy in the trunk ...

But actually it should be thoroughly inspected. There might be some other failure in the rear sub-frame or its attachment points? A USA car, by the way.

 

Carmine,

You did better watch out, before you ever realize there will only be a couple of automatic K's left at your side of the Atlantic!
Mine was also originally supplied to the US, after bumper conversion now even with a European steering wheel; which I think looks nicer.

Ciao,

Bart
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Wise words Bart, unless there is a second woman on the backseat we can't see

Carmine true there have been cars where the rear subframe has rusted to a dangerous point and even more concerning where the rust was around the bolts that hold the subframe to the chassis...this led to the write off of a number of K's in England due to the rotten climate there. In this case I just think it is neglect or lack of awareness, shot springs and shocks.

Congratulations on spotting it as an American version, hard to miss those monster bumpers...just teasing you

By the way I mailed your copy of my novel mid week you should get it early next week.

In other news I have heard from the new owner of 178, the dark blue car ex Spain with smooth nose which had been for sale in London via a Portuguese mechanic. He is a Belgian who seems very keen on getting it sorted and I suggested he join the forum.

best regards,

Marc

 

Hi Bart,

Very nice car. Is it black or dark blue? Along with the bumpers I see you also changed the cornering indicators on the front fenders. I agree that the Euro specification steering wheel is much nicer.

Carmine

 

I think they look quite elegant. In the springtime I will begin marketing a USA bumper and rear glass conversion kit to all of you other guys who got stuck with those flimsy Euro bumpers.

Good! I was wondering where it was and was about to contact the post office to see if something got mixed up. I'm looking forward to it!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mexico074
Ok Marc... You said to go ahead and ask questions, so I plan He then makes the comment "Luckily the speed sensing
belt on the rear half shaft was new.."...

I know there has been some discussion regarding this belt in this thread in the past, but
not a whole lot.. What is Tom Jr. specifically referring to?? Is this an area we owners
need to be more careful about??? I inspect that belt, as best as possible, whenever I
have the car in the air. But in all my years of K ownership have not replaced it..

What is the general consensus of other owners?? (Bart, Gene, Jack, and others, please
chime in here)... This could be useful info we all need.. I would also like to hear about
replacing this belt (ie: procedure, ease, etc...)...


Mike
Hi Mike,

The belt drives a pump unit / regulator that steers the speed sensitive power steering. (Diravi=direction assisté á vitesse variable, a system used also on Citroëns DS and SM) Below 50kmh or about 30 mph provides finger tip light steering and above this speed virtually no power assistance. And of course the self centering effect when stationary!
This results in the very direct feeling and the unique Khamsin steering caracteristic with the 2 turns lock to lock and go kart feeling!

When this unit is not OK, or the belt slacks, or is broken, a K is dangerous animal on the road because the power assistance stays on. During my K hunt I have driven more than one K that had this. At high speed one has no sense of the road and with the high power assitance in combination with the directness "it take a fly to s(h)it on your hand to change lanes by surprise"!

At least over here the belt at the rear axle, as well as the double belt driving the hydraulic pump on the engine, can be obtained through specialist (industrial) belt suppliers but are relatively costly. Over time they dry out and become hard and will break at acertain moment. If you are going to change the rear on better do the front two too!

To replace rear the belt one has to hoist the car, take the pulley & belt protection shield off (if it is still on there!) and undo the left side shaft. You are in for an hour of fun!
To put the new belt on and tension the belt one has to undo the regulator pump. I is mounted with slots on the rear sub-frame. Be carefull with the condition of the return lines and their rubber angular and straight sleeves. They to may be hard too and tend to crack easy when being moved. So, have some mineral oil resistant 3 mil inner diameter rubber hose ready, I use small tie raps to hold these in place!

If unclear, do not hesitate to ask.

Ciao,

Bart

 

Carmine,

The car is black, the blue shade comes from the blue sky.
Yes, the side markers were taken off and the bumper conversion was done using original Maserati spare parts more than 25 years ago.

Originally the car was supplied in yellow and had the T-Top conversion done in an attempt to sell the car during the oil crisis and the movement against convertibles, Ralph Nader times!

The first owner did not like to wear his sun glasses all the time when the car would be out in the sun... so, he had it repainted in black before he took delivery.

Ciao,

Bart

 

Bart...

Thanks for the reply and posting it here on the Khamsin thread... I originally asked my
question on the Citroen Book Thread, whereas it should have been here...

I will be paying much more attention to this portion of the car this spring (hopefully
in a couple of weeks) when I prep her for good weather driving... Your response is
extremely helpful....

By any chance, do you have any photo's??

Mike

 

Unfortunately no photo's of the belt replacement.
It is a real Maserati experience: one can see the parts and components but difficult to get to the bolts and nuts that hold them on place!

Don't be in a rush when you start things like this, one can easily get aggravated.

Ciao,

Bart

 

Thats worse than mine was when I got it.

What I found with the rear:

The Rear springs need re setting to the correct length, the steel is OK but the original heat treatment was not very good.

The Rear Suspension Cradle was Cracked L/H side behind the Lower control arm fowrard mount and, I have seen this on other Khamsins.

The rear suspension bottoms out and cracks all the Bibrochock mounts for the rear cradle.

Last but not least the Clutch actuator can get torn off the Bell housing!

Oddly the shocks survived

Graeme

 

With my apologies to Pete Seeger ...

Where have all the Khamsins gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the Khamsins gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the Khamsins gone?
Gone to Europe every one
When will we ever learn?
When will we e-v-e-r learn?

Now sung wistfully in the summer evenings at campfires during Maserati get together's all over America ...

 

Hi Mark,

That'll be nice to get all that sloppy LHM out of the carpet and pad. You can machine wash the carpet but do it on a gentle cycle hot water maybe a couple of cycles. Let it soak too. Then air dry and hope for the best. Don't use the drier.

What's the cost for that and do you know what he did to get it apart and then reassemble the thing?