Nick's ignition system

Which kit?

 

What do you notice specifically? I have been thinking about going this direction myself.

 

i did never looked back!

 

BTW, I noticed you have an 80 model.

I sometimes enjoy looking back at my old magazines I bought as a kid with 308's in them. A few months ago I was reading, again, the C&D road test of the "new" injected 308 back in 80. They commented on the ignition system and mapping, specifically that it was pretty outdated.

How funny is that? It was outdated in 1980....

I can only imagine how much better 2013 must be, even with the limits of that old CIS.

 

I assume that Kelly/Tifosi1 is talking about the Electromotive system that Nick sells. I installed that in my '78 GTS when I had it, and it ran great. I'm not sure what system he would be referring to otherwise. The Electromotive is a direct fire system, with leads running directly from the coils to the plugs, and is electronically timed from a sensor and timing wheel mounted on the crank dampener. Perhaps Kelly will expand on his comments.

 

p.s. I guess what he is really trying to do is sell the Digiplex units. That's all.

 

I have this system as well. I don't have the "pre" experience for comparison (car is a new purchase), but I can tell you that I was very surprised by the responsiveness and power - across the entire band. Out of the various needs on my car, this is one I have no plans to adjust.

 

I experienced the same kind of improvement in performance with my '78 GTS. It is a great system.

Just one "heads-up" on the installation -- you have to make sure that you securely fastened the timing ring to the crank damper, and that the set screws on the ring and the one on the sensor mounted on the timing cover don't work loose. The screws should be secured with Loctite. And I found that it worked best to drill a small dimple into the crank damper for the set screws to assure that the ring did not shift at all. If the sensor or the damper ring come loose, you will lose the signal and the car won't run at all. Ask me how I figured that one out. Knowledge is learning from your own mistakes; wisdom is learning from other people's mistakes.

 

I've been questioning the value of the Nick's system for injected cars; timely and helpful of you to report your results.

$$$ just spent on new ride for mrs., thus no change of Ferraris in the forseeable future. Doesn't matter - love my '83 GTS and now have a solid excuse to do some upgrades. Nick's aluminum radiator and Electromotive ignition at the top of the list.

 

"ahs a laoot more power."

I assume that's internet-ese for "has a lot more power"

But I have to ask, what is the "lot more power" based on? If it's just "feels more powerful," then i suspect the standard "louder is faster" or "I spent a lot of money so it has to be faster" syndrome.

I've seen loud aftermarket exhausts installed where owners raved about the additional power...only to find out that the stock exhaust actually made more power/performance.

If there is no before/after dyno or track test to verify a power increase (with no other changes), it doesn't exist. The butt dyno is absolutely worthless and will mislead you every time...

 

What's the "soup to nuts" price tag for Nick's setup --- with the DIY installation, of course??

 

I had my Electromotive installed over 15 years ago...before Nick started selling them. I truely believe this is one of the best changes you can do to a 308 (especially ones prior to the digiplex). I do believe that "some" power was found due to a better/hotter spark. I also believe that the engine runs cleaner and more efficient. The advance curve is adjustable, and running a little more advance might also find a few ponies. I've never had an issue with mine and that is with over 50k miles. It is dead reliable. I have the original style HPV-1. Just my $0.02

 

I put the system on mine but was already running twin MSD's at the time. Would say that change from original was a bigger step than Nicks but like it as well. I also had my carbs rebuilt at the same time as the nicks system so not sure where the gains came from but it is smoother overall now. Nice to get rid of the points and the engine bay is tidier.

 

"I do believe that "some" power was found due to a better/hotter spark."

It's great to "believe" all this...Proof is something else.

There is no such thing as a "hotter" spark. The spark jumps the gap - the voltage required to do so is what it is, it doesn't change because more voltage is available. If it takes 30k volts to jump a gap then as long as the coil can provide 30k, it will jump the gap. Having 60 k available doesn't produce a different or better spark in any way to jump that gap - if it takes 30k than that's all that is used.

However, it DOES mean that it can jump a wider gap so as the plug gap wears, the 60k volt system can continue to jump the increasingly wider gap where the 30K system won't. But there is no increased performance associated with that ability - it just maintains "normal" performance with less spark plug maintenance.

Same is true of ign timing. If an engine wants to see, say, 36 degrees of advance at 7500 RPM, the engine doesn't know or care whether a set of points and a centrifugal advance unit provided that advance or the latest, hi tech digital ignition did so - the max power is the same.

Again, the modern system doesn't require any maintenance compared to points but there is no power to be gained if both are set to provide the same full throttle max advance.

 

Wouldn't this system maintain the most advance possible under any throttle position? Seems that may wake it up a little bit over stock.

Just guessing.

 

"Wouldn't this system maintain the most advance possible under any throttle position? "

Sure, an electronic system can have a wide range of curves available where an centrifugal or centrifugal/vacuum system will have a relatively fixed "curve." So, for example although both systems may deliver 36 degrees at 7500 and thus produce the same max power, the digital system can be programmed to provide a greater variety throughout the rev range and thus produce a flatter power curve.

A modern digital system won't produce any more power at WOT/max rpm then a 1960's distributer/points/centrifugal advance set to the same max RPM timing. BUT it will (or should) produce a better power curve through the rev range and better fuel economy.

I did not mean to imply that a modern system isn't better overall but when you start talking about making "more" power, there is no difference if both are set to produce the same max advance/RPM. IOW, adding a modern ignition with no other changes, will not produce a quicker 0-60, or 1/4 mile time or max top speed compared to an old ignition that is working properly - though it will maintain that ability without routine maint.

 

As many issues as I have already experienced with mine, I am interested in the cost as well. What is the consensus of that from those who have done it?

Matt

 

All,

I purchased the TECGT from Nick and had the Electronic Ignition portion installed, one of the initial findings I found that my car starts up much faster. I am currently in the middle of a Electronic Fuel Injection project on my 328 that will utilize the other part of the TECGT's capabilities. I purchased the TECGT kit for $2876.

 

I wonder if Nick would be open to "Group Buy Pricing" if a bunch of people wanted them all at once?

 

Greg328 had a Nick system "new in box" for a long time..dunno if it is still there, send him a PM.

 

Thanks for the tip, Bubba!

 

You sure seem a bit heated in this...

I'm not an ignition specialist nor do I "believe" you are. Technology does not stand still and these are truely an improvement to the old points and condenser systems.

I guess I should not have used the term hotter spark. With the greater energy available this system can spark across a wider gap (as they recommend to open the gap some). Having a bigger gap provides a "longer" spark that is available to begin the combustion (flame propogation). This in theory helps in more complete combustion meaning fewer emissions, better efficiency, and more power.

The stock system has a predetermined advance curve. This may not be ideal at every rpm to provide maximum HP. With an adjustable curve, it is better suited to provide the optimum curve. If the maximum advance are the same, then yes ultimately the maximum HP will be the same (again, if we are just talking about ignition advance). With a different ignition advance curve, the power curve can change too.

Again, just my $0.02