is the bubble due to burst?

Nice post, +1, but I especially like this point as way under-appreciated as a collector motivation. The average car has gotten so incredibly capable that mere performance parameters just don't excite like they used to. The newest car I have right now is a 993 turbo and even it's performance envelope lies so far outside the parameters achievable on the street so as to be irrelevant.

A collector car is a kind of time-machine, transporting us back to a bygone era of engineering, materials science, style/design values, and performance. (which is why 'updating' a period car is IMO, pointless) Driving a 50, 70, 90 year old car is a multi-sensory event with with unique gratification and charm.

My oldest car is a 1920s Mercer Raceabout. Taking an hour drive on a bright weekend morning is like hosting your own parade: a major event full of sights sounds textures and smells that are way outside the bounds of a normal 'car'.

So my point is that in an era of 400HP Hyundais and 205mph Mustangs, a new Porsche or Ferrari is just not as relatively distinctive. To really enjoy a handmade, landmark automobile you need the contrast afforded by vintage autos, which are by definition in finite supply.

 

Nicely put.

 

I wholeheartedly agree. While a 458 is a stunning car with incredible performance I found it not much fun below 100 mph. But with the vintage you can become really connected with what is going on with the car. And you get the satisfaction of actually driving the car rather than having the wizardry do it for you. My fav is the GTC.......practical and fun as all get out to cruise, or push hard.
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anybody see the 60 min's segment last night (3/3/13) on China's building millions of un-inhabited houses, office towers and cities? Stunning and scary......hold that thought on Asia to the forefront of buying and price support. Very sobering report.

 

Ah Steve, can't wait to get back to the mountains

 

I have a pair of Peels. Matching number proper kosher 100pt correct machines. Took me years to source them.

I liken the Trident to modern art. Mega rare. In fact I defy anyone on here to find one for sale. The Trident should be treated as something to be oggled at in the Tate Modern or Guggenheim. An obscure motoring cull de sac. Yesterdays junk..... There's about 45 left on the planet of both types and eccentric collectors simply do not and will not dispose of them. Most have had them since the 60's-70's.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyqs5pPBA4U[/ame]

They are going only one way... I don't think you've seen anything yet for these type of things. Unusable in the real world. So you simply look at it!

Conversely I Googled a DB4GT and SWB and can have one in hours. To use modern American parlance "you the math" - there is ZERO supply for Peel P50 and Peel Tridents. Or TG500 and pretty much all the hi value junk that just sold. The world is waking up...

1962 Ferrari 250 SWB*-*For Sale At Talacrest

Aston Martin DB4 GT 1960 for sale - PreWarCar

 

The 250 GT SWB Berlinetta in the Talacrest link you posted was sold some time ago. They don't have one advertised on their website at the moment which doesn't necessarily mean they don't have one for sale of course, as quite often SWB Berlinettas are sold privately.

 

Apologies. You are indeed correct. But one would assume a call to DK Engineering showing a serious bank A/C statement should get the ball rolling in short order.

That's what happens when investors get involved with no emotional connection to their wares. If they sense the market is tipping then for whatever it could be utter carnage.

For them, not the bloke who has a few hundred K to realise his dream.

We have pretty much today a Ten Dollar gallon in the UK.

Low value sub 20MPG cars are IMPO doomed. At what point when peak oil really rams home are the value of the uber player cars going to retract?

I'm personally bullish for now. But one day I fear they will all fall horribly out of bed.. Heard mentality is a dangerous thing...

 

I also agree to this thinking. Just watched a technical vid on the new GT3. What a machine that must be, but how to use it on public roads without losing your licence.

SCantera, nice GTC and photo! Which Naples are you in, cause that photo sure doesn't look like any part of Florida I've been to?!

 

Did anyone see Keith Martin's ( Sports Car Market ) comments in the CHUBB flyer sent out. He opined that the collector car market is only 1/3 of its way up. That would be impressive.

 

Couldn't agree more. A friend of mine took me out in his Porsche Turbo S and it is amazing, 0-60 in 3.1s (which can be reliably achieved with launch control). He used launch control when we took it out and I never felt anything as strong as that car -- it handles amazingly too -- but it doesn't move me. I don't follow any of the newer supercars or their stats. My son knows them all, but I can't excited about them personally though I admire what they can do.

Our 10-year-old Maserati has much more power than I will ever need. For driving satisfaction, nothing beats the tactile experience of a vintage car. I just took the 330 GT out for a drive to take advantage of salt-free roads on a winter night and it's amazing how strong that car runs in the cold dense 30 degree air.

 

That is our mountain home in Blowing Rock NC...where some of the best roads I have driven in my life surround us. Some mountain stretches have no traffic, few cross streets, police and sometimes no speed limits. My buddies in their 599 and 575 SA had a hard time catching me in the GTC. Nothing like knowing the road and the car. High speeds are not necessary to have fun in a vintage. Being connected is.

 

If enough people buy them (Dinos) purely for investment speculation / flip ---- prices will eventually have to fall somewhat as many of those speculators will not be able to / want to hang on to them ---- if the prices don't continue to rise enough to generate a worthwhile ROI, they will have to liquidate their capital --- particularly if they are purchased with leveraged (or borrowed) funds.

It happens all the time with real estate and other big ticket things.... why should any collectible car (with that level of price tag) be any different ?? It will be immune to this investment phenomenon why......because it's a Ferrari ??? please.......

 

the federal government ( US ) is pouring about 85 billion new dollars into the system monthly ( read printing new money without any relationship to any anything tangible ) that's about a trillion dollars annually or the US currency is being diluted by the fed at an annual rate approaching 7%. That is inflation without any other economic influences that push the rate of inflation even higher. The US is not alone... other governments have their presses running overtime as well... world currencies are in a crisis as are the economies that are backing them. The raw numbers paid for vintage cars may be large in scale, but the future values they represent make them reasonable. The "cream" of the cars will not be damaged, there may be lessor cars that are riding on the coat tails could suffer in the short term. There is not going to be a reversal in currencies unless they run out of room to print "zeros". The massive amount of debt accumilated by the various economies insures that massive amounts currency will be needed to be printed to repay their debts with cheaper currencies.

Anyone purchasing wisely, for themselves, for their enjoyment well into the future should be nicely rewarded with smiles and good return on todays purchase...

It's not the raw number of a currency paid for an object , it's value it represents... it's the value that trancends time

the Wall Street cliche' could be appropriate..."Bulls make money, Bears make money, but the Hogs always get slaughtered"

 

Good article I guess I am a finical genius into gold since 2000, collecting art, cars and motorcycles for 40 years. I would say the car collecting and art collecting are very situational as to what is being collected. The bet of the best such as Ferrari's and antiquities with provenance have been doing well. Things like 18th century American furniture 1940's and early 50's Bentleys are out of style and are selling for less in real dollars than 15 years ago. Motorcycles of which I collect have been going though the roof. Bikes I bought in 2003 for $300 are selling for $5,000- $6,000.

 

Steve,

Good to learn you are a financial genius!

Ciao
Oscar

 

Bentley R Type and S1 Mulliner Continental fastbacks are notable exceptions.

 

Ferrari's web site is touting Classiche as an investment.
Not a good sign.

 

We are all, aren't we as we all own F Cars!!
Cheers
P

 

apparently my '58 Fiat Multipla only makes me quite clever

 

"The Best Way to Invest Your Money"
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Best for Ferrari no doubt.

 

Perhaps its best to get an expert opinion on this subject. I carried out an Interview with Kidston, an international dealer based in Geneva, on this subject and other interesting topics.

Kidston: A ?heavyweight? speaks his mind » Le Monde Edmond

 

Well look at it this way. Venezuela started printing money and after 7 years of doing so there currency dropped 90% against the US dollar. Is it possible the US dollar will devalue against the Euro, probably, but no where near the equivalent ratio of money printed before/after the financial restructuring.

Interesting times for car collectors, or more so for car dealers.

 

I thought the exact same thing. When a car maker tells you how to "invest" in their products instead of using them, it's time to run.

Why? Because this speaks directly to speculators and not to enthusiasts. There's a lot of speculators who would like nothing more than to make money from them. But, when things turn, they dump their investments quickly to be sure they are not the last guy burned.

This is a sign of insanity.

The only guys who get rich are the auction houses who over hype this stuff and make a cut on the way up or the way down. They don't lose.

Enthusiasts lose because they cannot afford one while too many are sitting in some investment banker's climate controlled garage waiting for the "right time to sell" instead of "the right time to drive".