Vintage tires?

Where are people sourcing vintage sized/rated tires?

I've been looking everywhere (or so I thought, obviously not) for 225/70VR15 XWX or similar for a Quattroporte III. The few I've found cost the proverbial arm and a leg, and with no mention of when they were produced, potentially being NOS and not "fresh" rubber.

From what I can tell, Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptors used the same size for some years, but I haven't been able to find the proper size and speed rating anywhere. I would think a number of cars from this era has similar if not identical tires - Ferrari 400, Maserati Khamsin, Bora, 70's - 80's Lambos, etc.

I've also heard conflicting info about whether todays XWX differs from the original or not.

It seems that "vintage" tires are becoming harder to find and (much) more expensive than they used to be.

Any thoughts, comments or suggestions?

Thanks!

 

I thought genuine Michelin were easily available from Longstone in the UK

 

This is it...go to Europe for a better selection, or deal with Coker Tire in the USA.

They are new rubber, produced in the old molds.

I have Goodyear support, via FULDA in Germany, but even there the production runs are 'infrequent" I have to 'get 'em while they are hot"...LOL!

 

I'm thinking about trying these: Kumho SOLUS KR21

 

Perhaps its time for new wheels so you can fit modern rubber.

ETA: I did a quick look at tire rack and found a dismal set of listings for 225/70xx15.

 

I started a thread on the "vintage (thru 365)model specific group earlier today much along the same lines.
All of the tires from my post below are currently available new.
You might want to check the thread from time to time to see if anything interesting shows up.
cheers


"I've now reached that point in the restoration that I should soon be looking for tires to replace the tired CN36s currently fitted to my 330 2+2 (Bianca Neve).

I'm hoping to keep the car as correct as possible but I also intend to drive it wth a reasonable degree of enthusiasm and would like something with a reasonable amount of grip.

The options so far:
The car originally came with Pirelli Cinturato 205x15 tires (dia. 707mm).
+ original equip, correct aspect ratio
- tend to follow groves, turn-in not as predictable as CN36s

215/70VR15 Michelin XWX (dia. 683mm).
+excellent tire, tracks over grooves better
- incorrect aspect ratio

215/70VR15 Avon CR6ZZ (dia. 677mm)
+ modern day levels of grip
- incorrect aspect ratio, road hazards an issue?


I'd like feedback from any one using any of these tires on this type of car; how they drive (grip, feel), look, & any interference issues."

 

Mitch - I don't think new wheels would make the car look any better, or any more original than it does.

It does seem like this particular size is the odd man out, going slightly up or down in size results in a much wider range of available tires.

I have Goodyear Eagle RS-A's currently fitted. They're not bad, but pretty noisy and rather stiff riding. They were on it when I bought the car, so I'm not sure of their age.

Been searching for some time, and it appears as though the only alternatives are
225/70VR15 Avon ACR3 and 225/70VR15 Michelin XWX. But £324 ($500) per tire?!? (actually it's over $600 at the US shops I found, this price is from the UK). The Avons are £100 less.

Anyone compared the Avon ACR3 against the Michelin XWX? I've seen the Avons (a friend bought a set for his Espada) and they look more like plastic than rubber, and with limited tread depth. But the real test is on the car, on the road...

 

Go over into the Goodyear Vintage/Racing tires, there's only one dealer, IIRC..

Look there.

 

Have you looked at the 215/70VR15 Avon CR6ZZ?
not cheap at about $400, but I've read good things about it.

cheers

 

Just a possible choice...

With Avons, you should be able to order through and Cooper Tire distributor, Aston Martin or Rolls dealers.

Turbosteel 70 | Avon Tyres
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For my vintage Caddy it is Coker or Universal Tire.

MB

 

Coker sells the Michelin XWX for $644 each. Not sure if shipping is extra or not.

Many good suggestions, and it seems to me that the particular size my car specifies is pretty uncommon, at least today.

I haven't checked out the Avon CR6ZZs yet, but will. $400/tire is still better than $644/tire!

So the relevant question - what happens when you use the 'wrong' size tire? E.g. if I went for the Avon Turbosteel 70s, which are 235/70R15 instead of 225. Or one of the many offerings at 205/70R15? One would be slightly too wide, the other more than a bit too narrow.

I expect I'm asking for trouble, but at this point I'm only asking.

 

if you check my post, you'll see the diameter for each tire is in brackets
- this will give you some idea of how they will look ( fill the wheel arches).

as far as width, there are two isues that I can think of; will they interfere with bodywork (especially on full lock) & will they properly fit the wheel! For my 330, 215s would be no problem, 235s most certainly would be and the steering would be quite heavy as I don't have p.s.

One other consideration that comes to mind is the weight of the car if you're going to be using it for high speed driving. I imagine your QP is quite a bit heavier than my 330; more weight at same speed = more heat.


cheers

 

Isn't the stock tire size 225/70/15 for a QP III?

If so... the 235/70/15 will be just a touch wider, 5mm to either side of wheel center and the car will stand roughly 1/4" taller.

235/60 would make the car will stand roughly 1/2" lower.

These will also add a small error to your speedo.

 

I can't say I've ever heard of "Westlake" tires here here's a an H rated tire in that size that fits. Are you going over 130 in that beast?

Westlake SU307 P225/70R15 100H BSW - tires-easy.com

These guys list a lot of tires some you've even heard of before LOL

 

Gummint laws mandate that the tires are commensurate with the vehicles stated rating and top speed (despite the fact that one can't legally get anywhere near those speeds anywhere in the country).

So no, I can't (legally) put H, R, S or anything but V or better on the car. I could, until I got stopped at a checkpoint, at which time I'd have to buy correct tires. Might as well buy the right one's to begin with. I had hoped to find somewhat larger a selection.

I understand that larger/smaller tires will affect speedometer readings and make the cars stance slightly higher/lower, but was more concerned with handling, noise and safety.

 

Height throws your speedo off.......width invites chaffing, and body and/or damage to the tire.

Goodyear long ago look at "60 series" offerings on my 308GTB and said 'no go'...

 

What's important is speedrating and that tire diameter is within 5% of original size.
Also note that rim width may also limit your choices as well as space in the wheel wells.

Altering wheel diameter changes the overall gearratio and the center of gravity.
The designers/engineers knew what they were doing, so you should not deviate too much from original.

I have very good experiences with Avon CR6ZZ on my -77 400, they look timeperiod correct on the car and have more grip than I have guts.
Highly recommended!
"If they're good enough for historic racing and the GT40's, -they are good enough for me."

See available sizes here Avon CR6ZZ
Guess you could use the 225/65-15 on your QP.

Harald

 

Center of gravity???? On a QPIII you're worried about the center of gravity with a .25 to .5 inch difference? Besides, usually the diameter is smaller so its going to lower anyway.

Load rating IS a big deal for a car that heavy and I didn't know the car was in Europe so I understand about the V rating. People run these cars on H and less rated tires over here all the time but regulations are a b*tch.

 

OP asked for what effects changing sizes may have on handling and safety, and changing CG definitely will !
-although in OP's case I agree it may not be significant and no need for worrying. Thanks for clarifying

Also thanks for highlighting importance of loadrating, the QP and 400 are both heavy bastards
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LOL What ... you couldn't find a QPIII version of that photo?

 

So it looks at this point like it's either:

Michelin 225/70VR15 XWX at £330/each (as fitted from factory) or,
Avon CR6ZZ 225/65R15 at £257/each (giving a slightly lower ride and smaller rolling diameter),
Avon Turbosteel 70 235/70R15 at £180/each (giving a slightly higher ride height and larger rolling diameter).

I've seen the Avons up close, and the tread depth looks to be a fraction of the Michelins. Can anyone comment on these tires compared to each other?

I'm primarily concerned with comfort, noise and safety. The car isn't going to be raced or run on a track, although I might like find some windy roads and open up the throttle now and again and would appreciate good traction. Longevity is important as well, especially if one tire type will end up lasting twice as long as the others.

Are there really no other alternatives? Has Goodyear stopped making the Eagle ES-A? Firestone has no more Firehawk PV41? Pirelli no longer offers anything in this size and rating? Just checking my options before I make a decision.

 

Here are my experiences:
Avon CRZZ at 205/70/15 on my Citroen SM FANTASTIC
any period Pirelli (various Jags and Ferrari) noisy, hard walls, and a bit sloppy
Michelin in correct size (various cars), nice, a bit soft, squeaky, comfortable
Avon turbospeed (v12 jag) very nice, tend to get a bit square after standing
Avon CR3.. no idea, only one in 225/70: original on DBS V8

 

Fellow Mangusta owner has tried and tested, his pick was the Avon CR6ZZ

De Tomaso MANGUSTA MA1266: MAINTENANCE & IMPROVEMENTS

 

I have the Avon CRZZ tires on my Kirkham 427 Cobra. They are fantastic. The other available 15" tires are frankly unsafe in that car (if you are really going to "drive" it).