Barcelona winter testing thread

I think they didn't get serious about properly building the team until mid 2011. Then, just like Red Bull, it takes time to build. Even if a person hired the best designers in F1 overnight it still takes 2-4 years before the juice comes from that long painstaking squeeze. Newey's RB1 through RB4 are a perfect example of a team starting with a few quality people then ending up with dozens of quality people which is of course where they've been since 2010.

 

Is that how long it took them to realize Brawn sold them a bill of goods? Even Jense saw the writing on the wall and took off lol....Seriously though, I think MB has handled their whole F1 effort poorly until now, and its taking an ex-Ferrari man to help put it right. If you or I said this three years ago we would have been laughed off this site...

 

Let's not forget that Brawn himself recently said that Hami is part of the solution. If you reverse that statement one can read it that MS was part of the problem.

Time and again Ferraripilot mentioned on here how different the driving styles of Nico and MS were. Maybe the previous Mercs were crap because they had to be a compromise for two different driving styles?

 

Costa may have made a big contribution to the W04, but it would be very wrong to give him the credit for "righting the ship" without giving equal credit to Geoff Willis, Bob Bell, and Brawn himself. As FP keeps saying, it takes years to put back together a top design team, and the technicians to support that design team in the modeling, wind tunnel, fabricating, machine shop, etc departments. One guy (Costa) can't turn it around by himself, and it's still Brawn that has lead the turnaround. It took him 3 frustrating years at Ferrari to build up the team before they were able to produce a contender in 99, 2 years at Honda before they succeeded in 2009, but then he had to gut the team after Honda dumped them and there was no way that Brawn would have been able to repeat because of that. Selling to Mercedes was no magic bullet, they still had a fraction of the staff they needed to be competitive.

 

lol....incredible logic.

 

indeed lol. As I said before though, I get his humor now. Took 3 years though lol

 

MS did have a particular driving style and others struggled with cars designed to suit this driving style. This is old news and could have compromised the design of the car.

In the end you need fresh blood that can find those 1/100ths of a second simply because they are hungry.
Pete

 

At the very least, Hamilton could provide feedback on the difference between the W04 and what was arguably the fastest car on the grid last season. I know that he had a lot to say about the lack of downforce at the rear during the Jerez test and those comments disappeared by the Catalunya test. Drivers don't design cars, but they certain give critical feedback as to how to gain those extra tenths and hundreths of seconds on the track.

I would hope that LH crossing over from McLaren would give them some insights on the differences between the two cars....

 

Of course Costa didn't do it himself-neither did Newey or Byrne-but he is credited with being the chief designer. Agree re the time line with regard to turning around a bad team, but Ross didn't think his team was that bad; in fact he predicted MS to win the WDC in 2010.

Brawn: Schumacher will be F1 2010 World Champion | F1 News | Jan 2010 | Crash.Net

 

The Ferrari was fast in 1997 and 1998. Certainly a contender well before '99.

 

I remember schumy the first time he drove a Ferrari claiming it was much better than he had anticipated. That said, they weren't backmarkers but wern't consistent threats for victory either....

 

I think Schumacher was fast in 97 and 98, but the Ferrari was definitely inferior to Williams in 97 and McLaren in 98 - maybe not quite a Clifford, but like with Clifford, it was the #1 driver that kept it in the hunt. Without Schumacher, the 97 and 98 cars wouldn't have seen a podium. By 99, the car was fast enough that even Edmund was a contender when Schumacher broke his leg.

 

Just missed in 1997 (the infamous Schumacher turning into Villeneuve to try to take him out of the race). I think MS was disqualified for the season but actually led the WDC going into the final race at Jerez. Villeneuve passing him took it away (I think he had a 1 pt lead based on his position in the race)

Wasn't the next season the one where MS broke his leg in that crash? Irvine was still in a position to win (but I'd take Hakkinen over him every time in that battle), so, yes, the Ferrari was indeed fast enough to win in both seasons.

 

Remember watching him crash in the British GP, I believe the culprit was a minor brake part that gave way; in any event it was the first time in years that the car was comparable to the Williams and McL.

 

Yes, I believe he drove their 1995 car just after arriving and loved it, remarking something like "how did this car not challenge for the WDC?" He then drove the new V10 car, which the engine people were quite proud of, and said that he much preferred the V12 machine.

Their first effort with a new V10 rather than the customary V12 was tough (though it showed flashes of speed - helped by Schumacher's brilliance) and it took them awhile to sort it out. 1997 was much better despite being outclassed by the Williams, and 1998 outclassed by the Mclaren.

I still contend that 1997-1998 were Schumacher's finest years of driving. To be able to take the title to the last race in 1997/1998 against competition with machinery so superior was amazing.

 

1999 was when he broke his leg. MS took the title to the final race at Suzuka in 1998 and put it on pole, but the car stalled prior to the formation lap and then he blew a tire after working his way up to 3rd after starting last.

IMO the '99 McLaren was superior but Hakkinen made some really idiotic errors (throwing away at least 2 race wins) and that gave Irvine the chance. The next year, I think Ferrari finally got it right with the F2000 and it was as fast as the MP4-15.

 

You mean like Fred in 2012?

 

Yep. Alonso's 2012 is right up there, if not better.

 

+1. Actually, he did the same in 2010. Red Bull played the fool that finally got its act together in the end, but Alonso's driving skill kept Ferrari in the thick of things in both 2010 and 2012 with inferior machinery.

 

I'd forgotten that painful 1998 campaign. It happened again when Alonso won the WDC in 2006 (Schu had to battle back all season long, but encountered key failures late in the year including at Suzuka to seal the WDC for FA). That's part of F1 though.

 

MS has had some bad luck. 1998 as stated above, 1999 he would have won the WDC but for Silverstone, probably would have won in 07 and maybe 08....now he's out and the MB looks like it came good. Timing is everything....

 

Yes, but he also made some mistakes in 2010...the China jump start, crashing at Spa, penalty at Silverstone, etc. I also believe the F10 was a better car relative to its competition than the F2012.

 

don't forget his monaco qualifying error.

 

Good call.

Alonso was very, very good in 2010 but much better in '11/12.