Why not Lotus ?

It is ironic that the Elise/Exige is possibly their best interior.

 

I haven't spent time in other Lotus, but I had an Elise and the interior was pretty crappy. It looked nice from a design standpoint, and fit well once you were in. The issue was the cheap plastic they used and all the squeaks/rattles. If they offered a leather interior package and killed that rattling I may have been persuaded to keep the car as the interior was one of my major gripes (followed quickly by crappy gear shift and uninspiring engine sound).

Loved the way that car drove though.

 

How much $ is a hotrod Toyota engine ? what hp & torque ? power to weight ratio ?

Thanks

 

Lotus $ never took off bc it was never a real top of the line car to start with like ferrar, lambo, am, or porsche. Its more like an alfa or triumph. Still love them and considering an elise to replace dearly departed xke

 

Ferraris were often described as a great motor with the rest thrown in for free. Lotus of course did not have the motor and most were built to last at best as long as the warranty. Remember the chapman dictum "just add lightness". I think the elises are worth money and some racing based elans. also the XI.

Lotus also made far fewer street cars back in the day and there were very few models. Certainly untill the time of the esprit any lotus could be purchased in kit form, so the sprit was the first real production type car. Esprits also fall apart pretty readily and were produced in volume, the wedge shape is not appreciated in the current era, so an esprit really does not fetch great money just like a 308GT4.

Lotus also has a great heritage of wining races which it has completly failed to capitalise on from a raod car perspective. There is a lot of hidden brand value to unlock there.

In the modern era I think a used elise holds a better percentage of its value than say a Ferrari 360. We can also see that some special newer loti like the 211 are pretty much worth what they cost new.

A point already made in this thread, these are not pose cars, or show concors cars, if you own a lotus old or new, its to drive. The modern lotus owner modern or vintage is really a far more authentic entusiast than most ferrari or porche owners because its all about the driving. Of course while some may look good, pretty much all any lotus offers is the driving experince, they are all far more direct hard cars than the others, and a Lotus motor puts out power but usualy sounds like a bucket of bolts.

hope they survive, because in this video game era, they are the pretty much the last company making real sports cars that need to be driven.

 

great point there, and reason lotus really IMO has never been able to escape a near 'kit car' perception among buyers, so comparing ferrari & lotus is oranges & apples really, they are great performance orientated cars, need attention to maintain, and unique in their own way, but will never become the 'cash investment' that ferrari have elevated to, being darn near a commodity in their own

 

Amen.

Porsche came mildly close with the Boxster Spyder, but the Elise/Exige are the real McCoy.

 

Not really representative, some of it is missing eg the top of the centre console. But then again it might have fallen off in true Lotus fashion....

 

Bingo.
Built for the 1% ers who appreciate building in lightness.

The inline 4 used in the Turbo Esprits was a Lotus product; No ?
I rebuilt one and they are built like a brick ****house.
One of my favorite engines.

PS I really really dig the "kit car" feel.
Its like if I were going to build a sports car in the shed from scratch this is what would come out.

 

Wasn't that based on the Vauxhall slant 4 block, as used in the CF Bedford?

Pete

 

I remember in grad school a guy had an 80's lotus. It was a POS.. the cardboard interior bits were falling off, the straight flat panel interior design looked like it was made at home with a hand saw. Outside design was pretty though and it was a cool small car.

I came up beside his car at a light in town in the evening. The headlights would turn on.. then turn off.. turn on.. then turn off (while out on the open road in traffic!!).. if this is any indication of "normal operation".. I'm not surprised so few sold.

I think the real reason it never caught on was that it was english.. and you had to be a masochist or a true die hard owner to keep up with it. That's exceedingly difficult when you have so many other options on the market that are easier to live with.

 

I think all the above points are correct.

The lotus motor first wento the Jensen Healy which promptly bankrupted that venture due to motor failures.

If you visit the lotus factory its really two WW2 style aircraft hangers and elise production line is more than a few guys in a shed, and less than a modern plant.

Lotus has always been avery creative company, and their need to do more with less has led to some exceptionaly concieved products sometimes lacking in execution.

I think witht he elise they really hiot their sweetspot. A small light car with exceptional handling and feel. The motor while not built by them, is actualy a yamaha designed and built toyota unit. Modern off the rack motoirs are really great these days, so I see no reason for a bespoke motor, although IMHO a honda motor would be better.

In any event you get all the lotus virtues plus reliability. Build is still subpar from a fit and finish perspective. What you get though is posisbly the most fun car to drive,its not slow and there is a magnified sensation of speed. Its defibatly not luxury, but there is aslo no snob factor. everyone who sees it smiles and waves, unlike a porche or ferrari. You can do more with it on the road than otehr exotics too. But yes it lacks brand reckognition show off factors, so it sells purely on what it is.

Looking forward, lotus ahas a huge heritage to mine for marketing and brand factors, second only to ferrari and porche, so it could be far more than it is.

As to product, their virtues of light weight and huge performance with efficiency should tie
perfectly with the current zeitgeist. What they need is more product inspiration in styling, better build and some better motors. The elise and Evora platform are already good.

Put a honda motor in a elsie and turn the wick up. The evora has had some styling derivatives, the mansori version actualy looked good as dit one of the Gt racing versions. productionise those, and maybe put the cosworth headed version of the toyota motor in, the one that has 450BHP. Yes a stunning 450BHP car that weighs 3000lbs, then you have something to beat porche.

none of this has to cost a fortune, all the poices are there, piuty so much money got wasted by bahar on following ferrari.

 

So other than the Head, block, and I assume the bearing cradle its basically a Vauxhall ?

 

I think its about $4,700 all in, brand new. its got 255 hp at the crank, and my particular car weighs in at 2017 lbs with full fuel,ready to race.

 

Spend 10k going for the latest supercharger upgrade an some strengthened bits and 350-400hp is on hand, car will weigh a little over 2000lbs. Thee are also lots of sweet sorted adjustable suspension upgrades. Brake calipers are already good, $400 buys you upgraded rotors and another 400 great pads.

Put it this way a friend with a 300bhp motor (basic 4k supercharger upgrade)has done 16k track miles with no issues, car does about 57/58 secs at lap. Slicks last about 4 days and pads 10-14 days. Rotors probably 30 days.

Changes tires to treaded, and drive home from the track.

 

But the turbo/engine combination was a nightmare.

 

Elans get good money for a well sorted early convertable. . .unfortunately. With an upgraded spyder chassis and worked 180HP TC engine, they are killers. I believe Graham Hill said it was the best road car he drove, not that it matters.

Had a chance to get one from a LOG( lotus owners group) guy 6years ago, but the time was not right for me.

And, of course, the main reason Lotus have not appreciated as much as other exotics is their beloved acronym; LOTUS - lots of trouble usually serious

 

I love Lotus...the handling, the "added lightness", and the rarity...the rarity and generally un-know appreciation, or ignorance by the general car buying public, has affected value except in a few exceptional instances... and the Lotus management never fully marketed the brand due to ever short supply of funds.
The North American market expected a Lotus to be maintained like a Dodge and it resulted in worn out misused and abused and neglected cars that tainted the perception of the marque ...but when a Lotus is maintained properly there is nothing finer to drive on twisty, hilly roads. Depreciated Lotus cars certainly provided me with ease of entry into a fascinating marque with a race pedigree that can be appreciated in the cars they produce for the road.

I guess I am biased having owned a Lotus Europa Special (sold it), and currently have an Esprit S2 and an Evora S GP Edition. Just the letter "E" thing is so uniquely Lotus cool. Albert Colin Bruce Chapman was a genius.

beev
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I've wondered about this too. I drove a 67 Elan coupe as my daily driver for four years and owned it about ten yrs. As others have mentioned, it had handling capabilities and was a driving experience qualitatively different than anything else of that era which I can say from experience. Lots of valid points on the thread. I used to think they were neglected due to ignorance about the brand, but then Lotus had its big rebound with the Elise and still no real bump for the vintage versions.

No that's completely wrong, Jensen Healey was early seventies, the Elan debut was 62. Furthermore, I'd contradict those who argue against the distinctiveness and character of the Lotus powerplant: Yes the Elan used the venerable pushrod based Kent for it's iron block, but everything else was Lotus or Cosworth designed. Real equal length headers, Twin webers. That block powered forty years worth of Formula Fords, so incredible possibly unmatched racing heritage. And that cross flow Cosworth head is routinely built today to make 220+ HP.

Again that's debatable: New, you would've cross shopped an Elan with an E-type, 356/911, high end Alfa, Corvette or MB SL. In SCCA, they were classed with the big dogs based on power to weight. All those cars today are worth a lot more proportionately than an Elan I daresay.

All I'd add in combination with existing excellent discussion is that it WAS a top of the line car, which simply didn't have many of the attributes buyers (yesterday and today) thought it should. Colin Chapman sorta tried, the Elan had electric windows which was a big mistake, and the world's least reliable retracting headlights. But ultimately what the owner got for his dollars was a bundle of engineering and design values which translated incredibly well to the track or the delight of the guy behind the wheel, but lacked the panache of it's peers.

 

Really wish they'd make that GTE legal in the U.S. L



400 HP in a lotus.

 

Man, that Guigaro design sure has held up well, much better IMO than the Pinin or Bertone contemporaries. Great looking car but I can't help mentally deleting the body cladding and wing. Really the most perfect form of the 'wedge' era...

 

I think you are confusing two motors, and there was a third. The Coventry climax went into the elite. After that came motors based on the ford kent block but with lotus bits and heads.

The lotus 901 motor was a fully lotus unit, lotus aluminum block. It was partially funded by Jensen, and managed to bankrupt them with failures. It is the motor that went in the esprit all the way trough the 4cyl turbo esprit s also the 70's elite and éclat. The only other fully lotus motor I know of that went into production was the one in the esprit v8. Also notable is the Chevy zr1 quad cam motor from the 90's which was lotus designed.

When I visited the factory a few years back they were quite clear that unless you made over 3500 units per year own engine manufacture coul not possibly pay.

 

Awesome.

A few weeks ago I started thinking about my next fun car in a few years and the Esprit V8 came up for some reason. I've heard the V8's can be somewhat problematic. How true is this and what are maintenance costs like?