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Spolier: Question about Group Lotus/Proton's involvement with Lotus F1 Team

Discussion in 'F1' started by Tifoso1, Mar 17, 2013.

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  1. Tifoso1

    Tifoso1 F1 Rookie

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    #1 Tifoso1, Mar 17, 2013
    What exactly is the relationship of the two entities ? I know that Proton is the owner of Group Lotus PLC, which is further divided into Lotus Cars and Lotus Engineering. I also understand that the Lotus F1 Team started as Toleman in 1981 and while the team is still based in Great Britain, it should be considered as a separate entity as Chapman's original Team Lotus, which ceased to exist after 1994.

    Now, Proton owns or has the controlling interests in Group Lotus PLC which owns the Lotus F1 Team, and it is a Malaysian company. But after yesterday's win, it is considered a British team, at least according to the manufacture's anthem that was played. Now, is Proton/Group Lotus PLC only acting as a "sponsor" to Lotus F1 Team and not the owner of the team ? If not, why wasn't the Malaysian anthem used after the win ? How exactly does FIA/F1 determine the country of origin of a team ? FIA's own website ( Formula 1® - The Official F1® Website ) even acknowlegdes that Lotus F1 team's history has nothing to do with Chapman's Team Lotus, with the exception of the name and the brand "Lotus". The current team's history is listed as Toleman/Bennetton/Renault and now Lotus F1 Team.
     
  2. 4rePhill

    4rePhill F1 Veteran

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    #2 4rePhill, Mar 17, 2013
  3. Kiskaloo

    Kiskaloo Rookie

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    #3 Kiskaloo, Mar 17, 2013
    Group Lotus is a branding partner of Lotus F1. A similar analogy would probably be with Marlboro and Ferrari (Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro).

    Since the team is based in England, I assume that is why they play "God Save the Queen", just as Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro played "Il Canto degli Italiani" because the Scuderia is based in Italy.
     
  4. Tifoso1

    Tifoso1 F1 Rookie

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    #4 Tifoso1, Mar 18, 2013
    Thanks for the link but it didn't really offer anything new. To recap, Group Lotus is owned by Proton, which is a Malaysian company. So what happen yesterday on the podium can only be explained if Group Lotus is only acting as a sponsor and not the owner of the team. That would also mean that the team is a complete separate and individual entity from Lotus, if that is the case, who is the true owner of the team ?

    I don't believe that is the case. RBR is based in Milton Keynes, UK. Mercedes is based in Brackley, UK. Force India is based in Silverstone, UK and Marussia is based in Banbury, UK. We all know that when RBR and Mercedes wins, it is the Austrian and Germany anthem that is played and not the GB anthem. I think most also refers to RBR as an Austrian team, Mercedes as German, Force India as Indian and Marussia as a Russian F1 team. Also, IIRC, when Renault won in the past, it was the French anthem and not the British anthem that was played. By that same logic, shouldn't Lotus F1 Team be Malaysian and not British ?Unless Proton and Group Lotus is only acting as a sponsor as oppose to being the owner of the team.

    Incidentally and just a FYI, according to the offical F1 site, Ferrari is no longer Scuderia Ferrari-Malboro, it is listed only as Scuderia Ferrari. I too was surprised when I saw that on the FIA site.
     
  5. GordonC

    GordonC F1 Rookie
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    #5 GordonC, Mar 18, 2013
    Following the 2009 Singapore Crashgate scandal, Renault sold the F1 team to Genii Capital Management. At the same time, Genii did a marketing deal with self-proclaimed marketing guru and newly-appointed head of Group Lotus, Dany Bahar, for Group Lotus to become the title sponsor of the Enstone-based team formerly known as Renault/Benetton/Toleman. As part of that sponsorship deal, the team was to be renamed to Lotus Racing.

    Meanwhile, Tony Fernandes bought a new F1 entry for 2010, and had arranged with the owner of the rights to the old Team Lotus name to use the name for his new team. Controversy ensued as for 2010 there were two F1 teams using the name Lotus, one team called Team Lotus, and another team called Renault F1 sponsored ny Group Lotus. Before the 2011 season, the issue was resolved, Team Lotus became Caterham, and the FIA allowed Genii to rename their team to Lotus Racing for title sponsor Group Lotus. By June 2011, however, it was announced that Dany Bahar had been fired by Proton, and at the same time it was revealed that Group Lotus had reneged on their sponsorship arrangements with genii and that the team was severing the agreement with Group Lotus over non-payment.

    Since June 2011, Lotus Racing has had nothing to do with former sponsor Group Lotus. Because the team continues to operate out of Enstone they are registered as a UK team, even though owner Genii is a Belgian company.
     
  6. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #6 william, Mar 18, 2013
    The Lotus F1 team 2013 is in fact own by Genii, and has nothing to do with Lotus cars.

    The Enstone team has always been British, regardless of who owned it :Toleman (UK), Benetton (Italy), Renault (France) or Genii (Luxemburg).

    So the national anthem played in case of victory should be "God Save the Queen".
     
  7. GordonC

    GordonC F1 Rookie
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    #7 GordonC, Mar 18, 2013
    That should also be the case for Stewart/Jaguar/Red Bull, based entirely in Milton Keynes, but Red Bull insists they're an Austrian team and have the Austrian anthem played for wins!
     
  8. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #8 Remy Zero, Mar 18, 2013
    I think...Proton has nothing whatsoever to do with the team. They're more interested in Merc, probably due to the Petronas sponsorship.

    Interestingly, this will be the first year Petronas won't be the title sponsors for this year's race, instead it'll be another oil and gas firm, Sapura Kenchana.
     
  9. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #9 william, Mar 18, 2013

    Yeah, and that should also be the case for the Tyrrell/BAR/Honda/Brawn/Mercedes team which never left England either!

    I wonder how Daimler-Benz feels about that...

    The same for Jordan/Midland/Spyker/Force India. All the DNA is British there too!

    In fact, apart from Sauber, Toro Rosso and Ferrari, I believe all teams are based in Britain.
     
  10. SPEEDCORE

    SPEEDCORE Four Time F1 World Champ

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    #10 SPEEDCORE, Mar 18, 2013
    At the moment it's Genii Capital that owns the team and Group Lotus is the brand partner which had plans to buy a large stake of the team in the future but with the current rumours they are getting liquidated who knows.

    The current team is registered as a British company it's as simple as that.

    Red Bull has the team registered with an Austrian licence so it's more than just "insisting".

    Benetton is currently the only team to go from becoming a British team to Italian team even tho they never moved to Italy.

    Also Scuderia Ferrari-Malboro stopped being called that last year, strange you didn't notice because it was a big deal when they announced it.
     
  11. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #11 Fast_ian, Mar 18, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2013
    +1

    However, being pedantic, the country in which your team is "registered" doesn't determine "podium nationality". You apply for an entry with the FIA through whichever ASN (National Sporting Authority) you like. Where you're based physically has nothing to do with it.

    Caterham is Malaysian for example, but they're very definitely a UK based team.

    Incidentally, anyone know who's the ASN here in the States? AAA? I know it's the RAC in the UK, but have no idea here.

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  12. Tifoso1

    Tifoso1 F1 Rookie

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    #12 Tifoso1, Mar 18, 2013
    Thanks all. This just makes it even more sad... As someone who started watching F1 in the early 80's, the name Lotus has always had a special meaning to me. And from the looks of it, the Lotus name is truly nothing more just than a brand now. Not only the team no longer exist, even its name is now hollow and IMO, a mockery of what it used to stand for.

    As for my own point of view, I have always feel that a team should be considered according to who owns and is financing the team. A BMW is still a German car and a German company even if it is build in SC. IIRC, wasn't the 640 chasis that John Barnard designed build in England and not in Maranello ?
     
  13. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #13 Jack-the-lad, Mar 18, 2013
    Are they registered in Malaysia? If so, it may be a while before we get to hear the Malaysian national anthem.....

    :)
     
  14. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #14 Jack-the-lad, Mar 18, 2013
    They don't call it Fauxtus for nothing.....
     
  15. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #15 Fast_ian, Mar 18, 2013
    Indeed.

    As far as the FIA is concerned, they are indeed Malaysian - Tony entered via their ASN.

    I gotta be honest, I thought Caterham may have made some significant strides this past winter. Right now, seems even Marussia are ahead..... Not good.

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  16. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #16 Fast_ian, Mar 18, 2013
    +1

    I'm pretty sure Isobel gets the credit for that one.

    Along with most of the others of course. ;)

    Cheers,
    Ian
     

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