458 Brakes Versus Porsche Turbo Brakes

My Porsche Turbo which is AWE tuned with 700HP has way better brakes than the 458.
When I got my 458 coupe in 2010 I thought that something was wrong with my Coupe's brakes and the brakes engage later than the Turbo's.
Recently I traded my 458 Coupe for a 458 Spider and find that there is no difference between the brakes of my past 458 coupe and the 458 spider.... this means that this is just the way the 458 brakes are..
So in summary... the Porsche has much better brakes which engage right when you step on the brake but the 458 brakes engage a few split seconds later....
I have been in some scary situations with the 458 as I expect the brake to come on like my daily driver Turbo but they do not...
Is it something I am doing wrong? Should you pump the 458 brakes if you want it t stop faster? And are there others who feel the same..
Thanks in advance...
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

I think the difference is in the pedal feel. I have not driven a P Turbo, only a 997.1 GT3 RS. Its brakes were super touchy. It was kind of odd at first to me how touchy the brakes were on the Porsche. Once I got used to them, they were amazing. The difference was not in the stopping power, just the brake feel and especially the pedal take up, or lack there of.

I have not had any complaints in the 458 though the feel is much different than my (very limited) experience with the Porsche.

 

The caliper prefill feature on the 458 may give you the illusion of delayed or certainly not sudden brake application. I had a 997 GT3 with ceramics and both it and the 458 have exceptional braking.

 

Are the 458 brakes carbon ceramic? If so, do you know if they have been burnished (broken-in) properly? On the ZR1 if you don't burnish the brakes properly it makes a HUGE difference on how the car brakes, specifically initial bite upon pressing the pedal. You might want to look into that.

 

I think it is the driver.

I have owned both cars and will put my F458 over my 911 turbo(s) overall, but rate braking essentially identical.

Both have GREAT brakes.

Road tests consistent put both cars in the 60-0 mph at 105-108 feet and 80-0 in the 18X foot range.

Never seen a test where there was any material difference.

My Porsche had much lighter brake feel and was more progress - i.e. it grabbed more as it slowed down. My Ferrari brakes just as well but THE DRIVER has to increase the pressure all way as speed decreases for a maximum g stop.

 

In my Coupe I put almost 5000 miles so a I am guessing that the brakes were 'burnished' unless there is a special process to do this.
The Turbo has ceramic brakes (it was a upgrade of like 10K) and I am not sure what brakes the 458 has ....
So are you guys saying that the brakes on both cars are similar .... It is just that the Turbo brakes come on instantly while 458 brakes have a lag?
IMHO that would in effect mean that the Turbo brakes are better....

 

You have a 458 and cannot look at the brakes and tell they are ceramic?

 

Are you driving the 458 in RACE mode? In race my spider anticipates that when you lift off the gas that you will brake and puts the calipers on the rotors. The car stops on a dime.

My Porsche does the same thing except it does not have race mode nor does it have CCBs.

Road and Track shows the Italia will stop in 106 ft from 60 mph and 187 ft from 80 mph.

Porsche Turbo S: 107 ft and 185 ft respectively. Can't get much closer than that!

 

+1. That and they're standard.

 

After reading the comments so far, I also think the OP is experiencing "green fade", new brakes that were not properly broken-in. Often mechanics either don't warn you or give the wrong/confusing instructions.

Try Googling "bedding-in CCM brakes"

Whatever you do before your brakes are properly bedded - DO NOT bring a new car/brakes to a dead stop from high speeds and then HOLD the brakes. That's the worst thing you can do.

 

Yes. 'Tis a puzzlement.

 

I own a 2012 Porsche Twin Turbo and a 2012 458 Coupe. I am certain is no more than brake pedal "feel". A fair experiment would be to take each car somewhere and check braking distance. I did experience a very dramatic difference when replacing my 2007 Bentley with Ceramic Brakes, recnetly totaled in an accident, with a 2012 without. The Ceramics would throw my wife forward, which is not happening with the steel brakes, however, this, in large measure was because I have a lead left foot, conditioned after too many years of racing. Best

 

Thats some good advice... thanks.

 

I understand... so maybe the answer is that 'To Me' the feel of the Turbo brakes gives me better confidence than the 458...

 

You're welcome, hope it's just something minor... been there LOL! BTW, I like your cars, very nice garage.

 

Yes, there is a special process to do it. Just driving around won't do it.

Take a read here: ******* Brake Burnishing******* - Corvette Forum

 

Proper bedding is key to getting the most/best out of these brakes, as well as knowing how they behave.

FWIW, for a "maximum g-stop", you want high initial brake pressure. In track driving, you start hard, and then release pressure as speed adjusts (and generally move back to throttle, or trail brake, or..). If you start soft and "increase pressure", typically means you did not start hard enough.

The physics of brake performance are complex for sure, eg. at high speeds, angular momentum matters, brake temp on ceramics matters, etc.

In street driving, that can feel a bit abrupt....people tend to do the opposite (soft initial and increase pressure, coming to a stop), which is more comfortable.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe CCM brakes are standard on Corvettes. Since CCM brakes are designed for track and spec'd for significantly higher temperatures, a somewhat different bedding process is needed. The CCM rotors and pads need to be hot enough and that probably means hotter than cast iron rotors. If the CCM brakes are not brought to a high enough temperature during the bedding process, it will likely not work.

I think it would be better to first ask the shop foreman or service manager at your Ferrari service centre about your brakes; whether they have been pre-bedded and how to bed them according to factory instructions if they haven't been.

I would also not brake hard to a dead stop with unbedded new pads (as suggested in the Corvette forum) because if you hold them against an overheated rotor, the pads will literally imprint pad material onto the rotor. You get static "pad prints" patterns glued on the rotor and it will then shimmy or squeak when you brake - your pads will never bed properly. The bedding process subjects your pads to exceptional conditions. Here's a somewhat extreme bedding process suggested for PCCB brakes:

How to bed in PCCB (ceramic brakes) | Total 911

 

Affirmative on CCMs being standard on all Ferraris, except the 612, by Fall 2007, and the 612 got them standard in Spring 2008.

Michael- The ZR1 runs CCM brakes and they were part of an optional package for the Z06.

 

CCB's are standard on ZR1 and optional on Z06.

 

Interesting.....thanks

 

No problem. A friend of mine was seriously considering going back to iron discs after being disappointed with the CCB's on his ZR1. After he performed the proper burnishing procedure the difference in performance was night and day.

 

I have to agree with you. I own a 997.2 with PDK and steal brakes. I feel like the turbos brakes bite harder and faster than 458. I had the same feeling the first time I took the 458 out and had to hard brake. Felt like I wasn't going to stop scared me. I just have to get used the feel.

 

F430... Yes... scared is the word for me too...I guess we have the same experience and my Turbo brakes are different/upgraded than yours with CCB...

 

porsche has always been known for its great brakes