Vettel vs Webber - Aren't We Forgetting Something?

Multi 21 *****:
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Cool, 3 threads about the same thing

This is a tricky one but I'll see if I've got it straight. They shouldn't act like team mates so it's cool for Vettel to ignore an agreement made before the race or, alternatively, they should act like team mates so Webber shouldn't defend his position with a single move leaving more than a car's width of room. This is based on the fact Webber made one move and left more than a car's width of room, in case you were curious how I came to this conclusion. I'm truly lost, honestly. Vettel decided to race and Webber raced completely within the rules. No, sorry, you've lost me.

I'm guessing you're ignoring the fact that when push came to shove (figuratively speaking) and Vettel took Webber, Vettel was on the outside of a corner and behind, Webber had two choices - stay in there and Vettel's off the road (and in fact, according to the rules Webber would have done nothing wrong) or back out of it and let Vettel through on the outside even though he was well behind. Did you miss this bit?

 

Just saw this thread.
I like Webber, I really do. But he should be given a 10 slot grid penalty for what he did.
And anyone who advocates putting another driver into the wall at 190 MPH should have their drivers license suspended indefinitely.

 

I wouldn't advocate it, but there again he didn't do it, did he?

 

I don't think it was that dangerous. I know it looks bad to us but those guys can work within millimeters of each other.

The bigger problem IMO is that Red Bull haven't dispensed discipline for disobeying team orders in the past and now neither driver gives a damn about what the team says. The only man who can fix this is Mateschitz. He needs to remind them who signs their checks by witholding a few million...

 

Just to put it in context, here is the pass in question. Very close but Webber gives a car width's room, the fact Seb is still with us is because he did. Good judgement and very skilled from both drivers, you could say. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Actually, technically Webber didn't have to leave any room at all. You're allowed to make a single move to defend your position and you can defend it all the way over to the side of the track. When you've done that you can regain the racing line but if the other car is then alongside you (used to be significantly, now at all I think) you must leave a car's width. So given the situation Webber could have moved right over to the wall to block Seb then back onto the racing line, leaving a car's width on the left approaching the right hander at the end of the straight. That's what he legally could have done but he left Seb a car's width to the wall anyway.

 

He's a true gentleman isn't he ??

I reckon next time he'll just leave the mapping on full and drive to the finish ahead of the Wunderkind.

I know when I'm on the track for Geriatric racing the bloody Jag drivers box you onto the wall to force you to give way to their barges in the corners, Mark is just too nice a guy , I'd have squeezed that little wanker Vettel right onto the wall so he had to flat spot his tyres to save himself from the wall

 

so what slap on the wrist do you think the team should hand out that would restore peace ?

 

Ultimately this ALL boils down to the FACT that as a TEAM they decided that the best thing for the TEAM was for the drivers to finish the race Webber P1 and Vettel P2 and communicated this to the team. One person put himself before the team by ignoring their instruction.

 

They could get Vettel to promise to abide by a given course of action if ...... No hang on, they already tried that.

 

Remember the Alamo

.... and some other insignificant periods of history
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Money. 50% salary deduction would be my choice with a promise of the other 50% gone and a 2-race vacation if it happens again. That would get my attention in a hurry.

 

Webber is not as fast as Vettel. If Vettel has the skill, courage and opportunity to pass for the win, he should. What a bunch of crybabies the Webber supporters are. If he could win purely on the merit of his ability, more power to him, but he found himself in a fight for position and he was passed. End of story.

For everyone wagging their finger and saying the team should punish Vettel, are you delusional?!

Vettel has brought three drivers titles to Red Bull. All that Webber has brought is a big pot full of "why me" piss

 

+1

 

Webber should not have yielded at all and pushed Seb wide.

 

I like your style but 50% of his salary is one hell of a big chunk of money, I'd guess. Although money may not work anyway. And giving Webber points, conceding a place, will just come over as charity. I'd seriously just have him sit out the next Grand Prix, I really would. I'd bet a fair few of us have had people working for us at one time or another, how would you deal with one of your guys openly ignoring an instruction? I've just left the military and we'd probably be a bit more harsh than the rest of you (unless you'd lock them up or put them on guard duty for a month or so) but I'd bet you wouldn't just let it go.

 

I personally don't think there should have been any team orders, but there were, they were laid out before the race, both drivers accepted them and Vettel was told to abide by them repeatedly. I'm not saying they were right but if you accept them, you accept them. You don't see if they suit you and just ignor them if they dont. I would be staying exactly the same thing if the roles had been reversed.

 

The problem is the team told him not to. I think it was increadibly stupid of them to do that but in the end the driver works for the team. If they say pull over you do it IMO. And that's why I think both driver's should be fined. Webber retroactively for Silverstone, Abu Dhabi and Brazil and Vettel for Malaysia. Otherwise who's in charge?

 

so, you'd have a hep of speeding tickets then ??

Team orders, nobody has to follow them, so why did Nico ??!!

The one thing Vettel does NOT have is integrity, Webber has handed him his arse in qualifying plenty of times and won 10 races as well so he's not a pissant.

If he was American there would be hell to pay for what happened , and rightly so

I remember Scott Speed getting a hard time at TR and a bunch of guys here defending him and he was hopeless, Webber has challenged for the WDC , broke his leg badly, taken a year to get back to form and is now challenging again so the Vettel arse kissers see nothing wrong with him shafting his "team" mate.

I'm a Ferrari fan but do have a passing interest in seeing fellow countryman doing well but getting the short end of the deal by the Eurogang, he IS the fastest on many days of qualifying, proved it with Jaguar and RB, but unless he gets a fair shake of the decency cup has no show of beating the Wunderkind to the WDC.

 

It's hard to punish only Vettel though when Webber has done the same thing in the past and got away with it.

 

No one should be suspended. Mark will have to deal with this on the track-hopefully hard but clean. Of course if I'm webber any team orders re seb just became irrelevant. At least if rb dominates then we will have the fireworks to entertain us.

 

Would love to see Red Bull park Vettels car for qualifying for China.
Make him start from the back.

 

His homeland having stolen 50% of Cyprus' deposits, why not.

 

Marko won't allow it. Now starting alongside each other with tight first corners (monaco, spa n monza) would be awesome.