Vettel vs Webber - Aren't We Forgetting Something?

poyta · Mar 26, 2013

barbazza said: ↑

Actually he was. He even admitted it to the press.
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He was ordered not to pass Vettel, the fact that he pushed and closed up on him doesn't mean he defied orders - in the end he didn't overtake him.

barbazza · Mar 26, 2013

poyta said: ↑

He was ordered not to pass Vettel, the fact that he pushed and closed up on him doesn't mean he defied orders - in the end he didn't overtake him.
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I'd doesn't look like he only closed up and didn't try to pass when you watch the vid. He was going for it. He just wasn't able to make it by.

By the way, I'm not bringing it up to justify Malaysia. Only to point out that this has happened before with no consequences. Makes it harder now for the team to dish out a punishment when they didn't the last time.

JeremyJon · Mar 26, 2013

Lewis, Bernie and JYS on Red Bull saga | Planet F1 | Formula One Teams | Red Bull Racing

As expected, every man and his dog - unfortunately not Roscoe - has an opinion on the Red Bull shenanigans at the Malaysian Grand Prix.

Sebastian Vettel infamously "robbed" team-mate Mark Webber of the race victory at Sepang on Sunday after he ignored calls from his team principal Christian Horner not to overtake the Australian.

Webber was furious after the grand prix as he was told to switch off his engine and assured that Vettel would not attack him. Naturally the post-race interviews turned into fun and games with Webber criticising the German and Vettel in turn apologising.

The 36-year-old F1 veteran has admitted he needs time to lick his wounds while Red Bull have revealed they will hold further talks with Vettel.

Of course everyone involved in Formula One has something to say about the saga and Mercedes driver Lewis Hamilton, who was also very sheepish after the race as he was handed third place on a plate with his team ordering Nico Rosberg not to overtake him, believes Red Bull's number one and number two driver policy is to blame for the drama.

"Red Bull have a clear one and two, they always have. And that is why they have always had the problems they have had," he is quoted as saying in The Guardian.

"We don't have a one and two at Mercedes. I have always said, from the moment I was speaking to the team, that I wanted equality [with Rosberg].

"They didn't offer me to be favoured but I just wanted to make the point that I am not a driver that comes and requests that like a lot of other drivers do.

"You have to be able to look at yourself in the mirror [and say] you won fair and square. In Malaysia I don't feel like I won my spot fair and square. Although I did drive a decent race, I don't feel spectacular about it."

Meanwhile, Formula One supremo Bernie Ecclestone feels the sport should not have team orders with the season only two races old.

He told Telegraph Sport: "At this stage of the Championship, I do not believe there should be any team orders. It does not matter who it is."

He added: "Let's assume that these two guys are in a position to win the Championship at the end of the year, then there is no way that Mark is going to help Sebastian.

"So Sebastian has to think about that. Maybe there will be a stage when he would like Mark to help him, but I don't think Mark is going to come up front and do it."

Triple World Champion Sir Jackie Stewart condemned Vettel's behaviour.

"I used to regard him as the most intelligent and worldly 25-year-old I have ever seen racing," he told The Independent. "But not any more. I think he made a major mistake, and I really cannot understand what was going on in his head. He made a very serious error of judgement over what was right and what was wrong."

Another former F1 driver Gerhard Berger warns that sometimes you have to be "extremely selfish" to win World Championships.

"If you remember back in history these things always happen," he told BBC Radio Five Live. "To be a race winner you need to be very, very talented but to be a World Champion, or to be World Champion three, four, five times, you need to be extremely selfish.

"These boys have such a big killing instinct. In these moments they are stressed by the situation, they just cannot follow their brain, they just do what their instincts are telling them.

"So, of course, after the race he is saying he is very sorry about it and that he cannot sleep, [but] I think he sleeps very well because this is his nature. But on the other side, this is part of his success. And nobody, no team, no team chief, no team-mate, nobody is going to change it."
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JeremyJon · Mar 26, 2013

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jcosta79 · Mar 26, 2013

410SA said: ↑

Webber is not as fast as Vettel. If Vettel has the skill, courage and opportunity to pass for the win, he should. What a bunch of crybabies the Webber supporters are. If he could win purely on the merit of his ability, more power to him, but he found himself in a fight for position and he was passed. End of story.

For everyone wagging their finger and saying the team should punish Vettel, are you delusional?!

Vettel has brought three drivers titles to Red Bull. All that Webber has brought is a big pot full of "why me" piss
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+ Infinity

classic308 · Mar 26, 2013

Mark Webber, Sebastian Vettel must part in 2014 - Flavio Briatore - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com

ripping RB a new one, crashgate checks in with his opinion....

freshmeat · Mar 26, 2013

^^^ For all we know Horner gets sacked lol.

DF1 · Mar 26, 2013

classic308 said: ↑

Mark Webber, Sebastian Vettel must part in 2014 - Flavio Briatore - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com

ripping RB a new one, crashgate checks in with his opinion....
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Thank you for the link. Interesting perspective. Is he lobbying Ferrari for a job?

classic308 · Mar 26, 2013

DF1 said: ↑

Thank you for the link. Interesting perspective. Is he lobbying Ferrari for a job?
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Would flav have fred pit??? Hmmmm....

NeuroBeaker · Mar 26, 2013

Interesting stuff. I imagine Webber will leave at the end of the season and Red Bull will replace him with a clear #2 to Vettel. I wonder if Webber will retire at that point or if he'll go to another team. Perhaps Force India could use him... they seem to be finding pace recently.

Drive550PFB said: ↑

I didn't hear Christian Horner get on the radio and tell Weber to quit blocking.

I did hear Horner get on the radio and tell Vettel to quit acting like a petulant little 12 year old child.

Next time, if I am Weber, I punt him into the wall.
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Didn't Schumacher get lambasted for racing someone too close to the wall? It seems fair to make it difficult for them by giving them not much room, but insane to deliberately punt them into the wall.

All the best,
Andrew.

freshmeat · Mar 26, 2013

"Webber won't quit Red Bull & will drive at the China GP."

The Australian, 36, was incensed when his Red Bull team-mate defied orders and overtook him to snatch victory in last Sunday's Malaysia Grand Prix.
He returned to Australia for some reflection and was reported to be contemplating missing the April 14 Chinese Grand Prix, but his father Alan said his son would be on the Shanghai starting grid.

"We'll be up in China for the next one," Alan Webber told the Australian Broadcasting Corporation.

After the race Vettel said "I'm not proud I did it" and Webber's father said he believed the triple world champion was sincere, but the damage to the already fractured relationship had been done.

"I think it will take a while to earn the respect and trust again," he said.

Webber said it was not just his son who was upset with Vettel, pointing out that the Britain-based Red Bull team had also expressed their displeasure.

"Sebastian disobeyed team orders and most, if not all the team, are disappointed with him," he said.

"Up and down pit lane Mark has not lost any credibility at all. It's probably Sebastian who has lost an awful lot."

Alan Webber said Red Bull co-owner Dietrich Mateschitz had confirmed his son's position on the team was "assured".

Formula One commercial rights holder Bernie Ecclestone has warned that the incident could come back to haunt Red Bull.

Webber and Vettel have a strained relationship, with the Australian openly questioning the support he gets from the team hierarchy, compared to that the German receives.

After the Malaysia race there were none of the customary team celebrations on the pit wall and Vettel received lukewarm congratulations from his colleagues.

Webber showed Vettel his disgust prior to the podium presentation at Sepang, pointing to Red Bull's implicit race instructions over the team radio.

Following a heated exchange in the team garage, both drivers scowled their way through the victory podium ceremony.

"I think it's very early days right now, it's very raw, obviously, and we need to work out how the team best goes forward from here," Mark Webber said after the race. "That's obviously going to be discussed this week.

"I will be in Australia on my surfboard, the phone won't be engaged. We'll see what happens."

There is a history of bad blood going back to Vettel's crash with Webber at the 2010 Turkish Grand Prix that ended the German's race and wrecked the Australian's chance of victory.
Vettel leads the drivers' championship on 40 points, with Webber third on 26. Red Bull is also on top of the constructors' standings with 66 points.
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Game on:
http://24.media.tumblr.com/08c0372decacd1dd6cbd67729883a504/tumblr_mk83io42vv1r8kneko1_400.png

Can't wait!

classic308 · Mar 26, 2013

freshmeat said: ↑

Game on:
http://24.media.tumblr.com/08c0372decacd1dd6cbd67729883a504/tumblr_mk83io42vv1r8kneko1_400.png
Click to expand...

if these guys qualify next to each other, particularly at circuits with tight first corners (monaco, spa, monza) it should be epic (assuming Webber doesn't pull his backwards act).

mwr4440 · Mar 26, 2013

".... punt him into the wall."

I love it when you F1 guys talk NASCAR.

NeuroBeaker · Mar 26, 2013

classic308 said: ↑

if these guys qualify next to each other, particularly at circuits with tight first corners (monaco, spa, monza) it should be epic (assuming Webber doesn't pull his backwards act).
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I really like Webber, but he just doesn't start well for some reason. I don't know whether it's an issue getting the rears warmed up enough on the out-lap, clutch control, or what... but he seldom gets a good start.

I suspect an epic first corner battle is most likely if Webber starts in the row ahead of Vettel and it's a short run to turn 1.

All the best,
Andrew.

Fast_ian · Mar 26, 2013

freshmeat said: ↑

Game on:
http://24.media.tumblr.com/08c0372decacd1dd6cbd67729883a504/tumblr_mk83io42vv1r8kneko1_400.png

Can't wait!
Click to expand...

+1

I needed a new avatar! Sums it up very nicely, thanks!

Cheers,
Ian

freshmeat · Mar 26, 2013

And for those who keep raising the Brazil GP from last year:

Malaysia was hardly the first time Red Bull's radio channels have been worth scanning. Just three races ago, in Brazil, Webber was asked to move over because the team felt he was making Vettel's life unnecessarily hard. At the time, the German was carving through the field during his ultimately successful pursuit of a third world title.

The difference, that afternoon, was that Webber complied.
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Fast_ian · Mar 26, 2013

freshmeat said: ↑

"Webber won't quit Red Bull & will drive at the China GP."
Click to expand...

"Don't get mad, get even!........"

This could turn out to be quite something - A pissed off Aussie -v- a bullheaded German.

Tears, anyone?

Cheers,
Ian

freshmeat · Mar 26, 2013

Fast_ian said: ↑

"Don't get mad, get even!........"

This could turn out to be quite something - A pissed off Aussie -v- a bullheaded German.

Tears, anyone?

Cheers,
Ian
Click to expand...

I am ready to see some carnage. F1 ratings will fly sky high.

Fast_ian · Mar 26, 2013

freshmeat said: ↑

I am ready to see some carnage. F1 ratings will fly sky high.
Click to expand...

I'd love to be the proverbial fly-on-the-wall when they see Charlie in a few weeks!

"Boys, this is F1, not taxicab racing! No shenanigans will be tolerated....."

What's the chances Seb will gift him one?

Cheers,
Ian

SoftwareDrone · Mar 26, 2013

freshmeat said: ↑

I am ready to see some carnage. F1 ratings will fly sky high.
Click to expand...

For all we know, this is why this happened in the first place. I wouldn't put it past Bernie...

kraftwerk · Mar 26, 2013

SoftwareDrone said: ↑

For all we know, this is why this happened in the first place. I wouldn't put it past Bernie...

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Too right Bernie loves it.

Fast_ian · Mar 26, 2013

kraftwerk said: ↑

Too right Bernie loves it.
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+1

He didn't script it, but hardly surprising he's stirring the pot......

Remember him turning his mugging into $.

Cheers,
Ian
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freshmeat · Mar 27, 2013

Fernando approves:
http://loosewheelnut.co.uk/image/46395161997

crinoid · Mar 27, 2013

freshmeat said: ↑

Fernando approves:
http://loosewheelnut.co.uk/image/46395161997
Click to expand...

Hilarious

DF1 · Mar 27, 2013

Lewis Hamilton: You have to be able to look at yourself in the mirror and know you won fair and square" on his own team orders issue.

He felt Nico should have been on podium. This is an attitude that Vettel, within the team orders issue, has not attained.

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