So if your boss orders you to do something that will make you a profit today, but will put the company out of business 5 years from now, you should do it? Technically you are correct for obeying his order. Ethically you are wrong if you do it.
+1 Furthermore (and that seems lost in the debate): Vettel did the right thing for the team. Not just for himself. Horner is an idiot to have come up with that team order in the first place. Wasting WDC points on Webber is plain stupid. The car yes, but not the driver: While Webber can be faster at times than even Vettel, he lacks consistency over the duration of a season. He is basically the reverse of Alonso, who is always top except for a few races where he throws it.
On the other hand, Vettel will get on with what he needs to do and not worry about where Webber is and RB will still trounce the rest of the field. Could happen either way.
+1 Big difference if Web didn't power down the car and got beat but he did dial the car down to save fuel thinking the team would protect him. I think many people CHOOSE to over look that part. I thought Seb's comment saying get mark out of the way over the radio portrays a lot about the team dynamics. Seb obviously feels he can tell the team to move his team mate as desired and not just over take him for the "sport' of racing. And by the way, the tone in his voice over the radio "telling" the team to move Web was very childish and arrogant. Wish someone had it recorded.
No they are not. The management knew this was a perfect bone of a win to throw at Webber to keep him happy for the rest of the season. Vettel would have been second and at this early in the season that's fine. Now looks whats going to happen now, constant battles within the team between the two garages for the rest of the season. That type of distraction is the most damaging to the season for the team and they know that and did not want it.
The "Team" doesn't much care about the WDC, the drivers do. The "Team" cares about the WCC...it's their team, their cars, their money, and the drivers are their employees (even the "pay" drivers). Given that, in my mind Seb was wrong, pure and simple. Having met him on a couple of occasions, he's a terrific kid, but HE WAS WRONG. How either of you can unequivocally say "They are wrong" about the team's decision is beyond hubris. Contrast Seb's behavior with Nico's, who was no less frustrated and is no less competitive, but who understood what "Team" meant.
I assumed Webs would be out at the end of this season, due to the amount of blibber blabber about him going somewhere else...and assumed this prior to last weekend's tumbdickery. Smoke = fire.
Webber = Coulthard. Good drivers, but never really able to have a shot at the title because of preference in the team. Coulthard had to bow to Mika Hakkinen at McLaren. Ron Dennis said. Webber has to play second fiddle at Red Bull. Helmut Marko says. I hope Webber is well paid to take that sort of humilation.
I don't know what hubris means, but I can tell you this: If Red Bull would have told the guys at the beginning of the race, "Let the best man win", none of this would have happened.
Agreed, but the "Team" is free (think Golden Rule here) to make whatever adjustments it sees fit during the race. In the instance at hand, it chose to tell its drivers to turn down the boil and didn't ask for a change in the running order. It did so to, in its view (again, think Golden Rule) to optimize the likelyhood of achieving max WCC points and preserving its engines and chassis. This early in the season, with Nico in 4th, Kimi somewhere in the midfield, and Alonso out, what would have been the benefit, other than to satisfy driver egos to "Let the best man win"?
Why was a new thread started? A rumor like this could of easily been posted in some other existing thread...
+1 what great news. As for Webber, he'll probably retire after this season. Bernie is in bed with Vettel and coddles him. The two of them looked like they needed to get a room after Brazil 2012. No surprise that he would side with him at all. Webber had his shot in 2010. He blew it in Korea.
It's easy to forget the sole reason a sport like F1 exists in the first place... to entertain an audience. If enough people get turned off to the sport due to team orders taking out all the "racing" in F1, then guess what? Red Bull won't have to worry about giving orders anymore. Sure, that's not likely to happen overnight, or even this year. But teams keep this up, year after year, and I guarantee the F1 fans will begin to disappear. I like the technical aspect of F1 very much, but without drivers battling it out on the track, it's just a car show.
Team orders got banned after folk got sick of MS taking the piss, with Rubens. Team orders got reinstated again after Ferrari blatantly ignored the no team order rule, so they were allowed again. Now we have have this situation, so read what you will in to it. Play by the rules is what I expect, it's up to the teams how they deal with it.
That sounds ridiculous. Throw a win at a driver just to keep him happy? What are we running here a race team or a babysitting service? If your driver is unhappy because he can't win a race ON HIS OWN MERIT, then either a come to Jesus meeting is in order or you fire his butt. Go tell your boss that you need a raise because you're unhappy that you can't earn a promotion based on your poor performance. Let me know how that works out for you.
Webber has constantly been linked to Porsche's 2014 Lemans bid. Not a fan of Webber but would be very happy to see him win Lemans in a Porsche.
If you think Ferrari were the only ones who ignored the no team order rule then I can't help thinking you're being a bit naive! What Ferrari did was to bring it out into the open rather than using secret codes or "botched" pit-stop strategies and such as like, to swap drivers around. This forced the FIA to admit that they simply could not police the whole team order situation properly as teams could always find a way around the ruling so they allowed team orders again. It was interesting to note that even though team orders are allowed these days, Red Bull still use codes to deal with their team order situation (multi-21). Old habits die hard I guess!
