'I don't know if you're right that people feel sorry for Webber. They just don't appreciate bad sportsmanship and entitlement.' This is why most people are upset. Between the team orders shenanigans from the MS era to recently, and Vettel walking away with everything recently, most people are upset at what Aircon stated above. Team orders are ridiculous; as are degrading tires. Just let them race balls out from start to finish
That's why I'm saying the team/Horner were simply wrong. I didn't invent the term but I find it very fitting: Horner-Ochse An Ochse is an ox, a bull. A Hornochse is an idiot.
They don't really as Webber is a push over. He will sulk for a couple of races, maybe get a win and then we will be back to normal. If Webber wasn't such a pussie then he would have left already. In the end it has generated interest in F1, Bernie is rubbing his hands together, it has fired up Webber (which takes some doing ... you have to start a couple of days earlier, if not weeks) and we had an interesting half a lap where we actually had some REAL racing. If Webber was really going to leave, he needs to annouce a deal ASAP, otherwise it's not going to happen. Pete
Again you're missing the point. The team had a PLAN; (as all teams do) after the final pit stop; get in a position to secure the most points possible for the TEAM, WCC points, not WDC. Had Vettel not been so petulant then they would have secured an easy 1-2 finish; instead of a messy 1-2 finish. Now he has two drivers that despise each other, and his team goal is threatened; as is his authority. As you say all the time the WCC is the most important thing. Horner doesn't win 3 titles in a row by being an idiot....
That's the thing: he will leave not because he is pissed but because the team doesn't want him anymore. They don't want a guy who disturbs their #1. Which is a bit unfair because it was Horner who created the situation, not the drivers As others already pointed out: once he leaves, there goes his chance at collecting trophies
WCC is a consultation prize. It didn't even exist in the first decade of the sport, that's how irrelevant it is.
Tell the teams that - You are *way* wrong there - Winning the sucker is worth ~$100MM and that's significant to even the big guys. "We" in the peanut gallery may only remember the WDC, but for *all* teams the WCC is what pays the bills - Be it the Cans or Marussia. That's what's so wrong, to me anyway, about what the petulant little German pulled off - For all his faults, Michael never, ever, tried to pull that **** over his *team*. Nobody (LdM, Stefano, Christian, Ross, Niki, et al) are bigger than the team is the issue IMO. Cheers, Ian
Are you f-ing kidding me?? You said in this thread - and many others - it's the only one that matters....
I never ever said that. The only thing that matters is the title. The title of WDC. WCC is only meaningful when you lost the WDC. Like for Ferrari in 82 or 1999.
Getting ahead of other teams is important to win Bernie's TV money, true. But not the honor of the WCC. That's a nice to have. WDC is what the fans remember and care about and therefore translates into marketing $ Only car manufacturers can get a kick out of the WCC, marketing companies like RB depend on brand recognition by their fans hence WDC is key to them
Not true Ian. I did the research and WDC pays more than WCC. Found the post. Here is proof that the sponsorship that comes via the WDC wins provides more funds for a team than the WCC: WDC funds versus WCC Yes if you are a new team or unsuccessful team the WCC money means a lot, but not to RB, McLaren, Ferrari, etc. because their status as WDC winners means they get the big bucks via sponsors that surpasses Bernies WCC money by in some cases many times. Pete
Wouldn't it funny if all this finally lit a fire under Webber's butt and he drove the wheels off the car this year--and won the championship?? Next to impossible, but funny.... Ya never know... Greg Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
Don't get me wrong, the DC is the one they want for marketing. And you're probably right, the $ the big 3-4 make from sponsors is bigger than Bernie $. Outside of those few, the others pretty much depend on it however. Cheers, Ian
Agree. Without Bernie's WCC money many of the "also" rans would have folded like a Richard Branson "I'm going to show F1 how to win cheaply" team. So the "also rans" only focus on the WCC because that is all they can attain. Once they become successful the WDC becomes the focus, therefore ALL teams actually want to win the WDC, or dream of wining the WDC, and it is why they race in F1. Pete
I hear what you are saying, but I also don't think Webber just ceded the position. He fought for it hard (and lost). I think that's why he was so mad - because he's constantly outclassed, and this time the team tossed him a sympathy bone, and Vettel jumped in front and grabbed it from the air. As for ignoring the team... well, I am with Andreas, it was actually best for the team for Seb to come #1 and Mark to come #2. But I bet they knew there's no way Mark would pull over, and they didn't want to risk wrecking both cars, so they chose the safe play. Seb's good enough that he knows he doesn't have to wuss out to team orders. What are they gonna do - fire one of the best drivers in F1? Tell him to sit out some races (and lose millions in constructor points)? I have no idea what was said behind closed doors, but Seb has nothing to feel bad about. He ought to lay down the law to Horner and tell the team to stop coddling Webber. If Webber wants wins, he needs to earn them.
But I think the last race actually proves they don't favor Vettel. If they did, they would have told Webber to move over. And last year, they'd have told Webber he needs to help Seb win. His actions put the title in jeopardy last year (at the final race), so either there are no favorites at RBR, or Mark ignored the orders. I think if RBR told Mark to move over, he wouldn't have done it. Then Seb would get mad, they'd race hard, and probably crash. I'm actually pretty sure of that, and I think RBR wanted the sure-thing result, rather than something slightly better (Vettel in front) that would have the negative consequence of another season of Webber whining. Seb knew he was faster, knew letting Webber win was foolish, and ignored the order - for better or for worse. I also really have a hard time with Webbers claims that he turned down his engine which is why Seb passed him. I presume it's simple to change the engine power, and he could easily have put it back up - and I haven't heard Seb say he wasn't on low power as well. There certainly was no difference in acceleration between then when they were racing. I think Seb passed him on talent, not engine tune. Seems that way at least. But at the end of the day, Webber has the same equipment and opportunity as Seb, so if he wants to win, he needs to do it on track, not by lobbying for special treatment. At the end of the day, I am with Andreas - I love drama, especially F1 drama. I hope there is a scorched earth war between the two of them this year - it will be awesome to watch
