MP4 prices are really plummeting on resale

Yes, but Porsche sells like 60K sports cars a year in different formats. Mac needs about 6-7K with 10 being great. No one says they will replace Porsche. They just need a small cut of the market.

 

Dude you know nothing about McLaren. Stop acting like you do.

 

Could it be that the less committed exotic owner is turned off the relative obscurity of McLaren? Ferrari is the obvious big name, with Lamborghini close behind. Everyone knows what those are, but few aside from true car guys and F1 fans have ever heard of McLaren.

As someone said, there are a plethora of choices at the $200k level. The MP4 seems like an amazing car, but without the brand awareness is it always going to be consigned to the also-rans among guys that buy a car to impress the neighbors rather than how it makes them feel?

(This is in no way a slight to Ferrari or Lambo, but rather acknowledgement that some people buy cars for its effect on other people instead of how it effects themselves. Hopefully everyone gets my meaning.)

 

I'm only listening to Ron's public statements. Are you saying he's not a good source?

What you should do is stop calling everyone a hater and move on. I'm no hater. I said there's nothing wrong with the car aside from over production (which is true and even your buddies on the Mac sight say the same thing).

Please... enlighten us. What is Ron's plan for production McLaren in 4 or 5 years?

Let's say they sell 3K of Mp4's a year (about the same as 458's).

Now, add in 350 P1's (I'll give you the entire quota) over 2 years.

I say they need 6-7 thousand cars a year to be a viable, profitable company.

And you say?

McLaren accelerates into debt to build new 'super-car' factory - Business News - Business - The Independent

March 19th....

http://europe.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130319/ANE/130319912/mclaren-automotive-will-post-2012-loss-but-is-positive-on-future#axzz2OtX0hFI6

 

No. Talk to AS, et al. You'll need a p1 allocation to do that. Do you have one? Because I do. This idea you're promoting they have to sell do many cars to stay in business is hogwash and you sound like a fool.

 

Well, I'll just stick with their public statements then, foolish as they may sound.

Mac thinks they can survive off of China. That's where they are expanding because the US is flat if not shrinking. Good luck with that one.


Please... you have such great information for us fools. What is their plan?

 

My plan is this. If you dont know then you dont pretend you do. If you do know, and its privileged information, then you keep it to yourself. Its called discretion.

 

The McLaren dealer here, Park Place, has Bentley, Maserati, Rolls, Jaguar and McLaren in a nicely configured super car "super store," with room for several of each make in a sensible size of space. I may be wrong but I get a vibe like Lotus. The 2005 Elise dropped like a rock for 18 months, sold in small volume and know what? It rebounded a bit and my 8 yr old Elise is probably worth about 30k and I paid about 45k for it.

Park Place sure looks like it can be profitable at most any number of cars per month or year in sales and it's just going to take time for folks to realize that the McLaren is on par with the 458. I also can't imagine that McLaren won't have a 5 year plan with significant potential losses at first built into the plan.

But I am just guessing on all of this. I hope McLaren and Lamborghini keep up the pressure in this segment as it makes all the choices better.

 

Algar Ferrari and West Chester Mclaren are both fairly close to where I live. Went to Algar, 1 458, everything else was F430's and 599's. That was it. Went to Mclaren, and WOW. Tons of these Mp4-12c's. It shocked me. Almost took away the novelty a little bit lol.

 

To Mr Frefan.....

McLaren will be out of the car business in 5-7 years....Their financial backers are getting tired of losing money

 

Frefan:

We are not trying to pile on. In fact, we wish Mac could turn it around. But, what you see below is typical and not new.

Here's a 2012 12c with 850 miles at a McLaren dealer and it's already 40 grand off MSRP, and will sell for less. You know the owner got 20 grand less than this in trade. That's a 60 grand loss in less than a year.

And this is a dealer, not some used car lot.

It's not untypical. There are other examples. Here's one at Lake Forest. Original MSRP of 281K. 900 miles later listed at 219k.

http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?tracktype=usedcc&csDlId=&csDgId=&listingId=111455448&listingRecNum=26&criteria=sf1Dir%3DDESC%26mkId%3D47903%26stkTyp%3DU%26rd%3D100000%26crSrtFlds%3DstkTypId-feedSegId-mkId%26zc%3D89108%26rn%3D0%26PMmt%3D1-0-0%26stkTypId%3D28881%26sf2Dir%3DASC%26sf1Nm%3Dprice%26sf2Nm%3Dmiles%26isDealerGrouping%3Dfalse%26rpp%3D50%26feedSegId%3D28705&aff=national&listType=1

This is not sustainable. You simply cannot attract new buyers to take this leap knowing they are facing this. It's the Spring selling season and prices are in a free fall.

Unless this direction is changed, I don't see how they can grow their market base in the US and sell more new cars when so many good, low mileage used cars are so much cheaper.

I'm sorry but it's not us who are causing this problem. It's McLaren.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Heck, I had a 2006 Gallardo and in 2008, 18 months later, I was told $100K to get into the very slightly re-done LP560. Lambo is still in business and has in part cut production. I bet McLaren does just that, cut production. They probably overestimated the market for their car in the first year.

 

I must say i am shocked by how fast they are dropping. And how many are on the market. I hope most are just trade in for the spider.

There is no doubt they will level as it is a great car for $200k.

 

Would a refresh or a "scuderia" version help new sales?

 

Doubtful as it is just the second model year. I bet they do a GT3 based street car in a year or so

 

I am going to say something which probably will sound very Red-Neck American:

I think this car (while beautiful) suffers from the fact that it does not have enough cubic inches to compete with the Gallardo and (of course) the 458.

No matter how much they pumped up the boost.

As I said, it is a beauty. But - I would not hesitate to pick the 458 on engine alone.

And - of course - this all ignores the possible effect of the Quality Control issues.

You can repeat all the same between their new supercar versus the Enzo replacement.

 

It clearly is a US problem. In Europe, the used cars have asking prices that are barely 20% of the new price for car with 3k miles ++.

 

How many threads are you gonna say the same crap?!

I notice that most Fchat threads about the 12C come down two points- resale or lack of Soul(whatever the heck that is). Why not talk about performance or lap times?? Ohh yeah.. b/C I have never seen a F458 or a F430 at the track in my 9 years of track days!!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPJ9ItB7zPI]2012 McLaren MP4-12C Drag Racing 1/4 Mile runs 10.37 @ 134.95 MPH Stock - YouTube[/ame]

 

Not speaking for Art, but I don't think anyone's crisitized the McLaren's performance at all. But even the most ardent McLaren enthusiasts have to wonder why they have depreciated so much; especially with so many 2012's still available with 25% of 2013 gone.
They certainly have a super aggressive business plan; the firing of Anthony Sherriff was alarming as well. Forcing themselves into a market with companies that have 50 years of history is a really difficult entry path. We all want them to succeed because competition is healthy for everyone.
Who knows, in 5-7 years Tesla could be the #1 carmaker in the world.

 

Why are you surprized? Half the threads on Mac and Vette forums spread their crap on F cars (and owners)

There's nothing wrong with discussing this. It's a fluid situation.

 

McLaren should have stuck with producing ONE supercar every decade or so. That way they would have kept their mystique and allure instead of trying to dump a few thousand more cars every year into an already crowded market.

 

Well the reason they entered the current car business is that the current model of F1 isn't sustainable without outside revenue. They had maxed out their sponsorship revenue; per Ron; and had realized that Ferrari's car sales model to fund racing is what is a good model to follow. The Mclaren F1 program didn't really make money, in fact they brought in an efficiency specialist to help them cut costs. The F1 program was very cool, amd definetly unique, but not a true money maker.
Kevin

 

Hey I know you from McLaren Life, don't worry, I am more than happy to keep my 12C forever if the prices have fallen. Lets see in 3 years when there are 400 12C Coupes in the US, and 5000 458's where the prices will be. I have a lot of family in Europe, and over there the 12C has held on as well if not better than the 458's. Remember your on a Ferrari Chat site, funny since I started driving my 12C more, I put my 430 for sale. I said it before, my 12C will smoke any 458 with ease.

 

Good to know your on the board of McLaren, oh I forgot, you must have seen some internal documents on McLaren's financial position. Funny the amount of BS on the internet, since I saw the P1 far before any pictures ever came on, and the business plan on the P13, and am a customer who also know quite a few people at McLaren, how dumb these posts are about McLarens demise. But then again, as I stated earlier, this a Ferrari Chat Site, and after being on here for about a decade, I know why I don't come here much any more.

 

Why are you surprized? Half the threads on Mac and Vette forums spread their crap on F cars (and owners)

There's nothing wrong with discussing this. It's a fluid situation.