Webber leaving?

John Surtees walked out of a championship ride and left Ferrari in a lurch mid season when they played politics with him. Cost Ferrari and himself the championship, but he got to go a team he enjoyed more.

 

While I tried to merely play mediator via PM, my diplomatic skills are obviously woeful and the thread is degenerating.

Therefore, I've tried to split the posts relevant to the personal dispute between Mike and Moretti to a new thread here:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/f1/403567-off-topic-debate-srt-mike-moretti.html​

Please keep this thread on the topic of Mark Webber.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

I don't buy that. The attempts to hold Seb behind were half hearted and there were no attempts to even ask him to cede the ill gotten place.
Seb knows what he can get away with.
RB the brand has much more use for Vettel that it does for Webber.

 

We seem to agree on the facts but I hold that this sort of thing is bad for the sport.
At this point the horse has left that barn but I see more of this sort of thing in the future, only more extreme and egregious.

 

Illustrative that you differentiate F1 from the sport.

I assume you mean the business by F1. If so yes the buzz is good for the business. But I'm a fan not a stakeholder.

 

From day one.
The point is that its getting out of hand. We're eating the seed corn.

 

That sort of thing is a result of the commercialization of the sport. Drivers have become media cult figures that have to be protected from the fans. When you turn fans into demographics the value of the individual and his personal interests disappears.
A marketing study of a fews years back showed that the NFL didn't need to sell a single seat to turn a profit. Bernie knows that the attending fan isn't his profit base. That's why he has no problem bleeding the circuits and no issue with empty bleachers in Korea and China. Why there is no French GP. Why Britain and Germany can be held hostage.

I fully realize the irony (or hypocrisy) of my position. If there wasn't so much money at stake there'd be no live TV here in the states. There'd be no Internet news and commentary about F1. There'd be no F-Chat F1 threads.
The problem is that this is a devolving spiral feeding on itself. Just because it has its roots in the history of the sport and just because it hasn't imploded yet doesn't mean that it won't.

 

You totally missed the point John. They are racing drivers and should drive to win. There shouldnt be any good will gestures but since team orders have been legalised its got worse.

 

I think this is why I really like "stock car" series like NASCAR, V8 supercars, etc. Yeah I know there's nothing stock about a stock car, but due to just how many cars on the grid are capable of winning a race, team orders very rarely happen, as that 1-2 situation with a huge lead just isn't possible as much. Each guy needs as many points as he can get.

There was one NASCAR race last year with team orders in play, and as I saw it going on, it really spoiled it for me, I stopped watching. There were about 13 cars involved IIRC, and that is more than 1/4 the field, and about 1/2 of the competitive cars. It happens in almost any series occasionally, but F1 breeds it more often with 2 cars per team, and a dominant team not wanting their two guys to crash with each other at the end of a race for position, so who finishes in front of who is done at a pre-arranged point.

Graham Hill and Jim Clark flipped a coin at Mexico before the race to determine which of them lead the Grand Prix with their dominant Lotuses.

In the case of this GP, the pre-arrangement was based on the last pit stop, and barring mechanical issues on Webber's part, Seb should of stuck by it, or at least, radio-ed in he wasn't gonna follow the plan.

 

Sorry but i disagree, you cannot blame Vettel for wanting to win the race or any other driver come to that, thats what they are there for...isnt it? If you put the major emphasis on world drivers championship (WDC) then you invite trouble, otherwise do away with the WDC and concentrate on the teams World constructors championship (WCC) only. Reason why not......money, so spare me the BS in between.

If Webber felt so strongly about it he should have put his foot down on the pedal a bit more. Dont whinge afterwards and act like some scalded cat trying to make us beleive this is the first time its happened.

blame the team/s who manipulate the race(s) and the WDC to suit and as a result reduce the excitement.

Surely this is contrary to the spirit of the sport. The nett result is a fixed race unless you let the drivers go for it. Ban radio transmissions is step number 1.

 

I agree with banning radio communication with the drivers, would return all forms of Motorsport who use it to real racing where the drivers have to judge how hard to push (tyres, engine life, fuel usage, etc) instead of 20 computer geeks.

Do away with the WDC though and I for one will 100% switch off. The whole point of F1 is to find the greatest driver in the world. The greatest driver thanks to the cream always rises to the top will end up in the best car, thus the car that powers the WDC to his win is the car to covert.
Pete

 

Not necessarily Pete but i do get what you mean, some cream turns sour though if its there to long!!

Do away with WCC then, that way the teams would push the drivers and not look over there shoulders for constructor points.

Whichever way you cut it, If this was another sport it would be fraud or rigging.

Webber should have won but in my opinion he was mugged by the team to slow down to let SV overtake. They knew he was going to do that. He is the preferred driver and the future of RB. Webber is too nice a guy IMO and deserves better

 

Totally agree and everything since is an attempt to get out of their intentional situation.

Webber either needs to accept he is a firm number 2 or leave.
Pete

 

Being Number Two doesn't mean to be screwed at every opportunity.

 

Tony, spot on !!!

Webber to Ferrari for his final year would be great, he and Fernando get on very well and respect each other on the track as has been seen many times over the years when they have battled each other for position.

And the RB team caused all this, if they had any decency they would exclude Vettel from the next race but what can you expect from a drink company

 

Not necessarily Pete, he might be thinking that if Vettel does a 1999 Schuey accident or a Sutil 2011 punchout, the team will then have to get behind him at his only shot at a WDC in the currently best car.

He was offered good money to go to Ferrari and was just waiting last year to see if RB would match it, they did ... he stayed, he's obviously a top tier driver or they would have said no

 

Ferrari has absolutely no reason to do that.