Ferrari should offer N button on F1 steering wheels

And pressing both paddles at the same time won't work because.... you're too busy putting your hands over your eyes?

Instead, you want to take your eyes off where you're going (in a high speed spin), try to find the button on your wheel (that you are probably moving), and press the N button while going backwards.

Hmmmm.....
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

How are you going to discern this fine line of knowing when the electronic assistance has failed and the car is about to spin out?

Kai

 

Can you explain this? I don't understand how going into neutral would cause the car to accelerate. What would be providing the energy for that acceleration?

 

I still don't understand why you'd want to put the car in N.

I have gotten out of a few spins by getting back on the gas. If I were in N it would have been a disaster.

 

That's a good point... But fortunately with Bluetooth technology we can integrate the N button directly into the smartphone, so no need to put the phone down or interrupt the texting.

(Oops... 31 days in March... Not 1 April yet, posted one day early)

 

Oh, I understand drive train resistance.

What you are describing is that the car's rate of deceleration will be slower if the car is in neutral. The car won't accelerate because it is in neutral.

I'm curious though, I don't know how the F1 systems work on street cars. I'd the car is in a forward gear, and the car detects the wheels moving in reverse, does the computer engage neutral?

 

My observations on "spin control" are based on lots of track time and SCCA racing. With most race cars with 3 pedals if your back end steps out you usually modulate the situation with the throttle. Giving it the gas squats the rear of the car (with rear wheel drive) transferring weight and traction to the back end. If you hit oil or coolant on track (much like black ice) you are just along for the ride. I can't think of any occasion where I have been compelled to shift to neutral when a spin started occurring. Once a spin is not recoverable you push both the clutch and brake in to limit the slide and to prevent killing the motor. That way you can get underway again without re-firing the engine. The old adage goes...."when in a spin, both feet in".
As for a car with paddle shifting...the cars all have active handling that is way faster than most human reflexes. When traction is lost, selective braking occurs at whatever corner of the car necessary to get it pointing right again. A full spin is likely to kick off the inertia switch thus killing fuel flow and the motor. The car has to be restarted. A neutral switch on a F1 race car may be there to prevent the motor from stalling when the car has spun. Or for pushing it around the pits or on the transport. Doubt there is any real world application for a N switch while a car is underway, whether going straight or in a corner...unless you purposefully want to coast.

 

4th gear,

You have miss understood the purpose of the Neutral button on the F1 steering wheel. They do not use it to save a spin but to stop the engine stalling. Once the engine stalls its race pretty much over as it is unlikely to start again.

In the old days with clutch pedals you would hit the clutch pedal NOT to save the car but admit you have lost it and when the dirt settles hopefully the engine is still going and you can select first and get back into the race.

Again this "technique" is NOT a save the car from spinning method but simply to keep the engine running.

As you mentioned you taught yourself how to drive a manual car. Well done, but IMO you don't have this area right in regards to selecting neutral when the back end of your car steps out sideways. Yes you turn into the slide but throttle control is what really steers the car, and knocking the car into neutral removes that completely.
Also when do you put it back into gear? After the car has stopped? Now depressing the clutch maybe but not neutral.

There are great advanced or track driving courses if you want to explore this avenue further. I suggest jumping into a go kart ... No neutral or gears but you will learn how to throttle steer.

Good luck.
Pete

 

Michael- On the Ferrari race cars like the 458C and its predecessors, the problem is solved simply by having longer paddles that can be reached easily regardless of the position of the steering wheel. So no need for a neutral button. Paddles attached to the steering wheel are only really practical for cars that have a very low number of turns lock to lock, like an F1 car. Otherwise when turning the wheel for sharp corners on the street, you lose track of where the paddles are located. With fixed paddles, you always know where to reach to hit the correct paddle. With longer paddles, you can even use the turn signals and the paddle nearly simultaneously, which has advantages on the street.

So I just put longer paddles on my car, like the competition GTs, and no problem. Plus if anything happens, my hands are already used to hitting both paddles simultaneously for neutral, and not stabbing for some neutral button that may not be where I think it is because I am moving the steering wheel and cannot afford to take my eyes off the road. Hard enough to find the horn buttons without looking.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Everything else aside....why IS the neutral button placed so prominently on all the racing wheels ?

 

Bingo.

" The first buttons to appear on the face of the steering wheel were the 'neutral' button (vital for taking the car out of gear in the event of a spin)..."

The key words here are "in the event of."

The spin has already happened in this sentence.

N button is only to keep the engine from stalling, not for vehicle dynamics.

 

Well, I have a Ferrari and tons of track time in a Ferrari and other cars, with instructor and without.

I have NEVER and I mean NEVER ever heard anybody advising me or anybody else to switch into neutral to successfully control a spin.

May I respectfully ask how you came to your conclusion and/or who instructed you?


Kai

 

Interesting reading the posts about Ferrari putting a neutral button on the paddle cars. Royal Enfield motorcycles had a seperate lever you tapped with your foot, and the bike went into neutral, from any gear it was in. Saved a lot of downshifting (and wear on the transmission and clutch), coasting to a stoplight. Wouldn't think that it would be too hard for Ferrari to engineer such a feature.

 

This reasoning would potentially make such a button seem very useful.

I am assuming, however, that dual clutch gearboxes have eliminated much of the wear and tear associated by the downshifting required in sequential transmission automobiles.

 

Rowing down through the gears on a bike with blipped throttle matching is so easy and it's just not putting any wear on any parts. Coasting is bad as you always want an escape route when the guy behind you isn't stopping so being in gear is good to be able to accelerate to the side of what's ahead (I've done that once since 1989 and the truck behind be totalled the car in front of me... Glad I was taught that survival skill early). If the rider is too lazy to do that just leave the clutch in and bang down the gears anyway...

To the OP, post your black ice neutral technique in the track day/racing section and see if ANYONE agrees with it.

 

+1 I never cruise in neutral just in case I need to make an evasive maneuver. I downshift and slow down in gear til I get to within a couple car lengths of the stopped car and THEN put it in neutral. It's a bad habit imo to coast from speed to a redlight in neutral and I keep trying to break that habit among my friends.

 

+1.5

Never coast to a stop on the bike.


Mark