Ferrari should offer N button on F1 steering wheels

You're not the only Canadian driver here - and few of us would agree with your perspective. I know I don't! I grew up in Manitoba, learned winter driving there where the roads in the small town were snow/ice covered for 4 - 5 months straight.

If you want to disconnect drive in an emergency situation driving a manual trans car, you don't shift to neutral, you simply disengage the clutch. The driving manuals, written for the lowest common denominator, refer to shifting to neutral for automatic trans cars where there is no clutch - note the "shift to neutral/declutch" references to cover both transmission types.

Re the F1 steering wheels - look more closely at the Neutral and PL buttons. Notice the protective ring around them so that they can't be pressed easily, but require a definite movement after taking your hand off the steering wheel. Imagine holding the steering wheel and trying to press the button protected in the shield - can't easily be done. That's because those buttons are NOT supposed to be easily or routinely used out on the track. If an F1 driver wants to disengage the drive, they pull the clutch lever, they sure don't mess around with a N button. Also for your reference, F1 cars have an anti-stall function to keep the engine running in the event of a spin - the computer pulls the clutch for the driver in certain specific circumstances.

Regarding your theory about a car speeding up on ice or translating momentum... I assume from your other comments that you're a lawyer? You're certainly not an engineer or physicist , or you would know that what you suggest is physically impossible. Period. If there is no energy input to increase the velocity of the vehicle, it slows down. That's all. It can not accelerate or increase speed without energy input, unless it's travelling downhill - then it's converting potential energy to kinetic energy.

 

I can close to 100% guarantee that F1 drivers do NOT even think of using the neutral button to control a slide, but you keep believing what your narrow mind wants to believe.

Unsubscribing, I have a brick wall to talk to.
Pete

 

My understanding is that the neutral button is to stop the engine stalling. In a spin they lock the brakes on and pray, aero is lost so no down force and at speed they are a passenger, all the momentum stuff etc is pretty much in the hands of the gods given the car generally is bouncing all over the road, track, grass etc. Neutral is doing nothing here to regain control, only when enough speed is scrubbed off do the get any control.

Rally cars and off road vehicles use power to aid control in the sliding situation, an F1 car is driven on the limit of grip, watch the super slow mo around corners. If the streering does not get the car under control, dropping it into neutral would just make things worse as it would sharply unload the suspension and probably cause a spin, instead of just running wide. My observation is they briefly lift off to regain control, going to neutral would mean the correct gear would need to be selected again, which would be tough on the drive train.

I would never advocate going into neutral, it removes on of three controls available to the driver, ie acceleration, deceleration and direction. Driver awareness, skill and car control ultimately determines the outcome.

Just my two cents

 

+1

 

BTW, what´s the reaction of a semi-auto gearbox in a road car when you´ve lost it and it´s going backwards? Engage the clutch automatically? Nothing?

 

one more button on my CF 458 steering wheel.

 

And you have also proved, via these photos, they never select any button let alone the neutral button to control a slide.

I actually wonder if N actually stands for Neutral at all? Drivers definitely used to select neutral to stop the engine stalling in the older days, maybe now they don't need to ??

Anyway, conclusion that EVERYBODY here has already stated, you do NOT want/need a neutral button on your road car steering wheel to control any sliding. The only time you want to select neutral is at a stop sign/traffic light, etc.

Second conclusion Ferrari have not offered a N button on F1 steering wheels because it is not required.

Best
Pete
ps: Sorry I am bored at work. Unsubscribing again.

 

Regardless of whatever driving technique anyone here thinks is best for controlling a slide:

The idea of implementing an "N" button onto the steering wheel for the purpose of giving the driver a reactionary car control measure in a black ice or oil slick situation is really quite silly (I think this was stated earlier). Black ice is usually invisible to some degree (it's called "black" ice), and oil slicks are usually small (most cars hold <5 quarts) and a driver wouldn't see one until he were right on top of it.

If a driver is going to react at all in a hazardous situation, it is best for him to do something already at the disposal of his basic motor skills: Either turn the wheel (more grip and different pushing of the arms) or push/don't push the throttle (again, a contact/push movement). Releasing grip from the steering wheel--which is the main mechanism for control in any automobile--in the event of a slide to push a button with your thumb or forefinger, however quickly, will only make the situation more dangerous. Not only have you let go of the steering wheel, but you've also asked your arms/hands to do two separate things. And remember, this is all supposed to be reactionary.

And who in the world drives their Ferrari when they know there's even a small chance of black ice? I mean, yea, there are year round drivers, but 99 out of 100 keep them in the garage in the winter.

 

It would seem to me that cars are mainly controlled by steering and throttle input in an ice situation. granted this car is AWD but still the rules apply [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpbPfKuJImQ]Colin McRae Legacy Ice Rally - YouTube[/ame]
oh and just so there isn't any confusion here is a 2WD car [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbfZayu6SQ8]Lancia Stratos Rally Car "THE BEST SOUND" - YouTube[/ame]
Plenty of sideways action and no neutral button! If you've spun a stalled engine and some diff damage are likely yes but id be more worried about the ditches, other vehicles on the road, and those pesky trees that pop up out of nowhere because neutral button or not a spin is a spin and its uncontrolled. Driving school is the best option for preserving any fine automobile. Having an aware driver is all you truly need.

-Josh

 

F1 cars are fitted with anti stall (DEFINITELY won't work when going backwards, by the way. Simply only when the revs drop too much when accelerating away, will also help recovery after a spin and the driver initially kept it running)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oczIYZ1c8QA]Vettel 1st lap crash Brazil 2012 - YouTube[/ame]

This shows the Vettel crash last year. The car stays in 2nd gear all the way, indicating he pulled one (or both, doesn't matter) clutch pedals I told you about earlier. NO hitting of neutral button then.

 

Skip Barber Racing School:

In a spin both feet in

When in doubt both feet out.

Thus when you know you are in a spin hit the brakes and put into neutral. Finding the N button on the steering wheel could be confusing. Easier to find both paddles and pull IMVHO.

With ASC on modern Ferraris, I wonder if it is advisable to put in neutral rather than let the nannies do their job. ???? Anybody know???

 

As I noted in an earlier post, the OP gets his driving tips from a beginner's driver's ed manual. The people that write those kinds of manuals must cater to the lowest common denominator, assuming that drivers have no skill, and do not have the mindset to modulate the gas pedal when something unexpected happens. Is it safer to be in neutral when the car goes sideways than to jump off the gas pedal with the car in gear? Yes, somewhat. But that is far from ideal. As every other poster has said, the ideal is to modulate the throttle. Matching road speed or even a very slight amount of acceleration is preferred, to keep the wheels turning (and hopefully giving you a slight forward push), and to keep the weight transferred to the rear.

I live in NE and have experienced about every slippery road driving condition you can imagine, in various types of vehicles. If the road is really that slippery that you can't successfully modulate the throttle, neutral isn't going to help either! I can tell you that from personal experience.

With your "on order" California, the smartest thing to do if you encounter a loss of traction is to keep a level throttle and let the electronics do what they do. If you manage to get the car in neutral before its all over (and you won't), you'll just prevent the car's traction and stability control from saving you.

OP, take a driving course from a performance driving school and see what they think about your "neutral as a traction control" theory. FWIW, my brother is a paid instructor and if I posted what he thinks of your theory it would no doubt be a COC violation!

You are wrong on this and should let it go. Or not. You've certainly succeeded in providing entertainment!

 

Right up the OP's alley then.

 

Pot, meet kettle.

 

And with that, I'm gone.

Have a nice day man! I have no interest in mudslinging.

 

speak for yourself. many times when i'm sitting in a raging blizzard with zero visibility in my wife's gl450 with high ground clearance, m+s tires, esp, traction control, four wheel drive, etc, i often think to myself, "if only my low slung ferrari with sport tires had a magical neutral button on the steering, it would be so much safer right now.."

 

In your car, if you start to spin, lock up the wheels using the brake. the car will automatically go into "neutral" to prevent the engine from stalling.

I'm not sure if this whole thread was some sort of "April Fools" joke!

 

Jim Clark was driving at Indianapolis during practice, spun the car a couple of times, and continued as normal with no lessening of speed. When he came into the pits, all the USAC drivers wanted to know how he could spin without flat-spotting his tires. Clark's response in his Scottish accent was: "Weel, I declutch, you know."