348 sometimes doesn't start after driving

So I thought I had a hot start problem and was about to buy the Bosch relay to help the voltage. Then I read a thread where someone nudged the car in gear and it started right up. Does anyone know why it would start from a nudge. I mean hot start that when I turn the key it does nothing. Just dead. But the nudge worked the other day. I can't wait for it not to start again to see if the nudge works)

 

I thought I had a hot start issue, but it was actually a failing battery quick disconnect under the air box. I would definitely check that connection.

 

That's what my problem was too.

 

+1, I had that problem too.

A bad battery itself can be the guilty.

The bosch relay installation to help the voltage is a nice idea, and a symptom of the issue is when you hear a noise like CLACK, CLACK, CLACK, thats the starter not engaging due to the low voltage. In this case I should inspect before the ground connections in the engine bay looking for rust or dirt.

 

Wait, so are you saying to change the battery? Or the switch under the air box? Sorry very new to this. I have no clack clack clack at all. When i turn the key Everything powers on . but when i turn the key all the way Nothing. Again when hot and not all the time. After I drive it for a while then go to start it, it does nothing . Sometimes it starts fine. . The other day we jumped the starter and it started. Solenoid not locked. Battery seemed fine. .so I figured the ignition line coming from switch is weak. I will definitely check under the air box. Just not sure exactly what I am checking for yet. Only drove the car like 20 times. I am no mechanic by all means. With out this brother hood I would have never bought the car. So then it happened again and I rocked it back and forth like an inch and it started. I was shocked!! What would that have to do with anything!!

 

Mine used to do the exact same thing. Bosch WR1 solved it. Installed by my local Ferrari tech.

 

Daniel, did they install it up by the dash or in the rear next to starter??

 

Back by the starter.

 

Thank you Daniel. I will be buying a 30k service kit soon. The car is due for it.

 

My problem was the bullet connector as well under the air filter box. I took off the air filter box, disconnected the bullet connector and cleaned both parts with sand paper. Snapped it back together tightly and never had a problem again.

I think nodging the car may cause the bullet connector to move and establish a (temporary) connection again. This would definitely be the first thing to check, as it does not cost any money to fix.

 

That's great ncjetskier. Thank you. Sounds good. Just glad that nudge trick gets ya out of a pinch when your out.

 

Personally, I think the "nudge" trick could not possibly do anything at all to rectify a starting problem. Nothing.

 

Well, it DID get me home when she refused to start!

 

Me too. I was stuck in parking lot and truer the nudge and it worked last week. I was shocked but very happy. Just don't get why but....

 

Milton do you think it has to do with ignition wire being to thin and heating up?? I seem some older posts of yours back in 2008.

 

The gauge of the ignition wire (from ignition switch to starter) is entirely adequate to feed proper voltage to the solenoid.

The "nudge" (with the car in gear) changes the relationship between the starter drive gear and the flywheel ring gear. That won't help with an electrical problem. If you have a bad tooth on the flywheel, so that the starter drive can't engage the teeth, then it WILL help to turn the flywheel to a spot with better contact. Don't think I've ever heard of a 348 with a damaged ring gear. So I can't think of any reason that the nudge would help, any more than sprinkling holy water on the engine.

 

Well, everyone knows Italians are VERY Catholic, so the water might, in fact, help I'll have to get some from the local church.


I agree though. I can't see how a nudge would do anything. I can believe, however, that several tries and a little time the start would free up from being sticky. I know mine was "cranky" like that until I pulled the starter & cleaned the contacts. I'm still on the look-out for a 125mm plunger for the starter..

 

Just to make sure we are all on the same page...my car was dead as it gets, no clicking, no lights, nothing. I had someone push while I held the clutch in, then at about 5 mph I dropped the clutch, gave it a little gas, then quickly put the clutch back in. So it was not technically in gear when it was nudged, but it started immediately upon releasing the clutch. Got home, tried to start, no luck, found the fried battery connector. Fixed with aluminum duct tape started no problem and has since.

Is that the same procedure you guys followed?

 

No. I didnt start it like that and when I turn the key all lights do come on but nothing when I turn to full position of the key. Dead dead dead. Gonna do relay anyway but...so again After driving the car for 20 minutes, usually nice and hot by then I shut it off. Get back from the store 5 minutes later nothing. So in a post I read in these archives someone mentioned they rocked there car a bit in gear. I rocked it thinking what could this possibly do. Wow it started. !!So something happens when car is moved. Not sure what. Sensors? I don't know. Lucky I could change a tire. Anyway I will keep u posted when it happens again. Drove the car yesterday but I guess not long enough to get hot. One guy said he had is car towed to Ferrari 3 times when stranded for it to roll off the tow truck and start right up. I hope wr1 relay is the answer. My research on the forums is pointing there. Some one here also put in a push start button. He Hasn't had a problem since he by passed is ignition and went directly to starter. Oh and let me mention that one time I was able to start the car when dead from the starter itself. Annoying!!! But you guys make it worth it as well as the car being a BADASS!!! Even if it doesn't start at least it looks good. Lol

 

Jeff, I just found your post from 2003. It was you that put the push start button in the cigarette lighter opening. Why did you do that?? You seemed to have the same issue then.

 

Yes, I had the same issue. It started out mostly as a failure to crank over when the engine was hot, but it got steadily worse, to the point that I couldn't count on it to start either hot or cold. BUT, it would always crank over if I took a screwdriver and jumped between the two terminals on the solenoid. Remember, at that time Ferrari Chat was only a whisper of what it is now, so I had to figure out a solution for myself. Basically, I wanted to bypass the starting portion of the ignition switch, but I didn't want to have to start the engine from outside the car. With that in mind, I found a suitable location for a remote starter button, installing it in place of the cigarette lighter, which I discarded. I simply ran a wire from the power source to the button, and from the button to the solenoid. I think I ran the wires through the boot for the harness to the right hand Motronic computer, and under the rear carpet. Using that remote button, I had a 100% success rate in starting the car, until I later replaced the button with the Bosch relay, which also gave me a 100% success rate. I considered replacing the ignition switch, but it was not possible to purchase only the electrical portion of the switch, you had to purchase the tumbler assembly as well, PLUS the key-operated door lock, at a cost of something like $600 at the time, as I recall. My investment for the starter button was around $15, I think.

 

That is great work Jeff. Soooo glad you are around and your knowledge is superb. I also can start it with the screwdriver so I hope the relay is for me as well. Actually I would prefer that start button. My son would love to start it that way. Thanks again. Been driving it all weekend but I guess it's not hot enough to act up for my "nudge" test again. That time I didn't have to get the screwdriver out.

 

Same here-never happened again and we are several hundred starts down the road.

 

I missed this thread while I was a on long road trip (> 2500 mi). I did have hot start problems on the road trip and came up with a workaround of sorts that worked everytime without installing any equipment. I pasted my thread at the bottom of this post.

I have also tried "nudging" the car once and it started. It was actually more just rolling the car a foot while in neutral. I couldn't believe it. But I tried this again the next time, and nothing.

Obviously the wiring between the battery and the starter is the guilty party. With corrosion and bad connection (eg. bullet connector), resistance on that wiring increases. The result is the voltage drop over that wiring also increases (V = I * R), to the point where the voltage presented to the starter is reduced by that amount so with the lower voltage the starter does not turn the flywheel over.

The "starter button" solution connects one of the battery positive voltage to the starter via a "known good" wire and so the voltage presented to the starter is very close to the actual voltage on the battery terminals themselves.

The relay solution is similar in concept.

The voltage drop over wiring (especially long ones) was the reason why AC (alternating current) was invented. It would be impossible to send DC power over a great distance due to the voltage drop of the cabling. AC system is entirely different especially with 3-phase power.

Perhaps one day someone will come up with an AC solution to the hot start problem =-)

Anyway, my post on my workaround with no equipment installation is here:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/348-355/410390-%2410-99-workaround-hot-start-issues.html