Who Designed LaFerrari?

it's all good John, I knew what you meant, I just wanted you to know it wasn't my opinion, just quoting from the link

 

I remember that trip.

 

Bill there you go again. Enzo's fell back to 600K from 1.1MM before heading higher after P 4/5 came out. (I never said that would have anything to do with P 4/5 and your implying I did is laughable) The technology of no wing (La Ferrari) vs wing DRS (P1) is clearly inferior as todays F1 cars show. Ring times of LaFerrari vs P1 will teach us if Luca's no wing design is anything more than vanity especially as P1 has less HP than La Ferrari. 918's KERS technology is far superior to either P1's or La Ferrari's in terms of durability and P1's clutch on both sides of the gear box is superior to La Ferrari's. In a straight line which bizarrely you seem to care about in sports cars a Venom is faster than all of them and a Venom's VMAX leaves all of them far behind. When something is faster than your beloved Enzo in a category you claim it doesn't interest you. (VMAX P 4/5) (Around The Ring or any Track P 4/5) Even 2006 P 4/5's VMAX is higher than your Enzo, P1, La Ferrari, and 918's. The Venom's is truly impressive. Design wise P 4/5 won at Villa d'Este, Quail, and The 2006 International Design Award for something designed in Italy. So far as I know an Enzo has NEVER won any Major concours award or any International design award. You Fan Girls are funny.

 

With all due respect, this sub-forum has lost any signs of gentlemanliness a long time ago. For example, there´s something about "fan girls" a bit above this. So, newcomer or not, I understand that popey could say: "hey, what´s the problem, there´re worst things around here".

I repeat, with all due respect.

 

Hey Jim. Thank you for your thoughts. They are always very much appreciated. Just a few comments...

1. Not sure why you responded to my styling comment with performance comments. But that's OK. It just gives a bit more to talk about. I don't know what awards Enzo or P 4/5 won and how significant these awards are. I just know my own feelings and those of others when seeing both cars. In my opinion, Enzo is a very purposeful design, like a fighter jet, that will likely never get old. P 4/5, in my opinion, showed its age on day 1, which I think is by design, isn't it? So it naturally gets different reactions. Maybe it's more beautiful? I don't know. But in my opinion, it doesn't get the emotions flowing like Enzo does. I bought Enzo because of this, and I'm not trying to justify my purchase. It's just what I feel. I would say the same if the car was worth $10M or $1.

2. I didn't mean to imply your comments regarding the Enzo's price reduction were due to P 4/5. But I did get the sense you thought it was reduced because of its poor styling. Regardless, I think people are appreciating Enzo's design today more than ever before. Whenever I bring the car to events, crowds - both young and old, car nuts or not - flock to the car. I've seen young kids stand around the car for hours trying to take it all in. It's amazing to see a car, designed over 10 years ago, still elicit this type of response in all types of people of all ages. It still wins awards at nearly every Concours I take it to (sorry, I haven't taken it to Quail yet) and is invited to events even when it doesn't meet all the event entry rules. People just want to see it.

3. P 4/5 performance has only been what you've told us. There are no independent tests. I still hold to my belief that Enzo is significantly faster to 200 mph+ and will leave P 4/5 far behind due to its lower overall drag at higher speeds. Why not have an independent test to prove me wrong? I also believe that with the same rubber and drivers, Enzo and P 4/5 will have very close times on a smooth track, with possibly a slight edge to P 4/5 due to it's lower weight and supposedly higher downforce. But the Enzo's superior high-speed acceleration will make up for some of that.

4. Enzo was not designed for the Nurburgring and should not even be considered in that respect. Its long front overhang, low clearance, and suspension components don't work well on rough surfaces. It was designed to be a very fast car for the street and occasional smooth surface events. I've driven it 6,000+ miles on all kinds of streets. Yes, it hits the front teflon protectors sometimes, but no more than any other car I own, especially not more than CGT and GT3 RS.

5. You mention P 4/5's VMAX is faster than pretty much everything ever made by Ferrari, Porsche and McLaren. Maybe yes when you only look at your tire size, gearing and engine RPM. But I'd bet P 4/5 couldn't even exceed 200 mph with its additional drag, or would take forever to get there.

6. The 959 was superior technology to everything else out there at the time. But did the technology make it a superior car? Likewise 918 has some great technology, but it needs to use 4-wheel steering and 4WD to overcome the added weight. So, overall, it's technology to try to make a political point. LaFerrari (and possibly P1) have superior designs and use technology in a more elegant way. They may have less technology, but they use it in a smarter way to produce an elegantly simple package. I believe LaFerrari will go down in history as being the most highest performing car ever with the simplest technology to do it. A great combination, IMHO. 3000 lbs, low emissions, 0-300 kph in 15 seconds, beautiful reliable design, V12, seamless power delivery, etc. You can go on for hours about LaFerrari. Talking about P1 and 918 starts to sound like talking about a computer program, not a car.

7. Just a few last minute thoughts on styling... I don't believe Pininfarina brought P 4/5 to their recent event where they showcased the designs they were most proud of. Why not? LaFerrari has a purposeful design, like Enzo, that provides the required cooling and acceleration. P 4/5 copied an old design and, as a result, is not optimized for acceleration nor cooling.

Of course all of this is my personal opinion and I may be proved wrong by independent tests. Now I gotta run and get Enzo ready for its next big event!

 

I believe that the wings of F1 cars are more spoilers than wings. Their elevated position is regulated and they are there to catch clean air, rather than work as an aeroplane wing. That said, another member mentioned that according to his calculations LaFerrari should have 600 kg of downforce also, at less than 160 mph. Remains to be seen but one thing is certain; Ferrari will be at the top, even jointly so. In a straight line though it will be the quicker of the 3 new hypercars.

 

Ah, you gave yourself away! See you soon!

 

Well, I'm just gonna say that the law, strict or lax, must be the same for everybody, newcomers and honorary members, and that you're right in that you're late.

Edit: and I do think that the last popey comment deserves a ban ;-)

 

Luca!

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdYv3gDw4JE]The F1 Seat - Lewis Hamilton - YouTube[/ame]

 

hmm

 

spotted in Dubai ...one of three mules running around
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

What happens to these mules? Do they become actual cars? Does Ferrari hold on to them or can crazy rich collectors buy them?

 

in the US they are typically crushed, due to regulation & that they are pre-production

but the enzo / 348 mule exists still, so who knows, maybe these will too survive & go into collectors hands later on?

 

Not sure if this was mentioned yet but some of the sketches in the LaFerrari book are signed by "A. Agnari" (Alberto Agnari) and some are signed by "Werner" (Werner Gruber) and some are signed by "franzoni", not sure who that is.

-F

 

that's very interesting info, thanks Furmano!

 

The Alberto name linked to the following sketches...
Design story - ??????? - ????????? - Cardesign.ru - ??????? ?????? ? ???????????? ???????. ?????? ????. ?????????. ???????????. ???????. ???????????? ?????.
http://www.cardesign.ru/files/forum/part_19/190551/preview/big_laferrari-03_500.jpg

 

JJ and Vig, you guys might know, are those design drawings by Agnari the design sketches because hes the designer? They look so exactly like the final car! Or maybe hes from an agency that makes images of finished designs? I think its pretty cool that Agnari can draw something as good as a photograph if hes not the designer.

 

often times,those finished looking sketches are done after the car is finished.....just sayin'

 

Exactly. Many of the sketches in the book are of that nature. That said, I think all the guys listed above work for Ferrari in their design department and worked on the development of the car.

Oh and another thing. Regarding the shape of the main side scoop, this type of flowing, pinched leaf shape can be seen in many different concept cars developed over the last few years. So to say that it came from one person and Ferrari Design simply took it for themselves is not really accurate. It's just a popular shape right now.

-F

 

+1

 

We do that all the time in the film biz

 

Wait furmano let me get this straight. The designer draws a pretty picture of the finished car AFTER the cars been designed? Why,isnt a fotograph better?
You say that flowing pinched leaf shape of the main side scoop cant be claimed as there original idea and is just a popular shape right now. That confuses me. What concept and production cars have it? So has Ferrari Design not come up with a design they can call there own? You mean they didnt have any designers sketch a fresh new or better idea for it? Is it that hard for a designer to design something new? Are we stuck from now on with new designs that have already been done before? I wouldve thought that the LaFerrari was important enough not for them to rip off a design feature thats been done before?