Collectability v. Volume by Michael Sheehan.

basic economics...all elements that determine what goes into defining supply and demand for a particular good... nothing new here...

 

OK, you got me there. Regarding a 328 vs. a 355, that would be around a $40,000 car vs. a $50,000 car, just shooting from the hip. Prices for 328 are firming up. Have 355 stopped dropping?

Yes, but. Mileage will make the cars depreciate even more. Sorry. So it pays not to drive your car.

As far as the electronic stuff becoming obsolete in the future, I know that is a common refrain but it's not backed up by what is going on, as D and Bob pointed out. New technology makes it easier, not harder, to work on (reverse engineer, design a better one) the old technology.

-F

 

From everything I have heard, it is all that and more. Currently, they are drifting down to $150,000 in the states. Tempting, mighty tempting.

Dale

 

And a 288 GTO is still no 250GT SWB. Had to stop reading there.

 

How many did they make? It is far closer to being just a 430 "special edition" than anything else. A great, even amazing car, yes. But, it is still never going to compare to a classic in terms of rising value.

 

Challenge Stradales are already coming off their bottom and starting to appreciate. A Scud is a much better car. $130,000 to $140,000 may be their bottom.

It is a mistake, I believe, to compare '60s production numbers to the current cars. There are so many more potential buyers today than back then, that the difference becomes meaningless.

Dale

 

The 458 is an exciting car as well. Probably also classic.

 

Subtle sarcasm at its finest.


Well played.

 

Well, a plain jane 458 will probably run circles around your classic piece of junk F40.

Dale

 

No doubt. But since I rarely get to drive that fast where all out speed is what truly matters (and by "rarely," I mean like not ever), I have to settle for lowly things like a superior driving experience, the incredible feeling of pure sports car driving, rocketship-like drama, insane amounts of feedback from the car, feelings of reward at driving a challenging car properly and worst of all, the knowledge that I own an appreciating asset. It's torture sometimes, I swear.



FYI, none of that is a knock on the 458. It's among the best of today's cars. It is what it is. Luckily we all have choices as to what we get to drive.

 

Some people just don't care about that. Crazy I know. Kids, sometimes ya' just can't figure them out.

And even Mr. Market has been fooled. Have you seen the prices on those ole F40's?

-F

 

Plus the 458 has Bluetooth.

 

Carbon cup holders.

 

You guys laugh but 20 years from now when no one knows how to drive a stick anymore, the modern cars might just be that bit of nostalgia that appeals to that generation. I can remember when the old guard Ferrari owners laughed at the Dino as "just another Fiat" that would never have any residual value. Wasn't that long ago actually...

Prices for Dino's in the 90's reached 220K. They are about that now. Things go up and down. Gravity is a bee-otch. If your goal is making money off a car, don't be around when it falls on your head.

Driving pleasure never falls on your head. Which is more important?

 

agreed. Totally. But I was more or less trying to draw that a 288GTo and a 250 GT SWB and a 250 GTO share a similar story or at lease one that is probably the closest thing since the world of racing changed so much.

 

agreed

 

The days when nobody knows how to drive a stick will never be here. It takes, at most, an hour to learn. You don't even have to be taught, if you understand how the (relatively simple) clutch mechanism works, you can hop in and drive it. Nobody ever taught me, I watched my dad drive when I was a kid and by the time I was 12 I knew exactly how a clutch and manual transmission worked on a technical level and had been driving a riding lawn mower for years, so when it came time to actually drive one I just hopped in and took off. If somebody wants one of these old cars, they'll figure it out, it's not like it's that difficult. Heck, some of the really old cars would require more work figuring out how to start than actually driving.

 

Am I the only one who thinks the 288 GTO is better looking than the SWB? I guess I prefer a Kamm tail over a bubble butt.

*runs away*

-F

 

Spiders were still being produced in 1995 and the 348GTC (Euro offering only) were manufactured alongside the 1st 355's.

His dates though didn't quite resonate with me either....last 348's and 1st 355's in 1991?....it was 1994/1995

Probably

 

I should replace the word "knows" with "wants to".

 

no

 

It'll be a (long) while before that happens, more like 40-50 years. I'm 34 and will always want a manual trans car, even if I have some that are not. I have plenty of friends my age and younger that feel the same, and in 25-30 years they'll be hitting retirement and some will be buying toys. A lot will want manual trans muscle cars or sports cars, so it will be at least another decade beyond that (if ever) before you get a lot of people that just have no interest or fondness for them, even in an old car. Look at how many people still want a carb car over an injected car (which really adds little to the driving experience other than some noise), and they went out of production in the early 80's, over 30 years ago.

A lot of young 20's guys want WRX's, evos and BRZ's and they are for the most part manual trans cars, so in 40 years they'll still want one and will be able to drive older cars with a manual as well if their tastes evolve to that.

The manual trans was on it's death bed in the late '70's as well, try to find a manual trans trans am, camaro or vette from that era and look at the price premium. They're outnumbered at least 10:1 by autos and '80 and '81 for the camaro and trans am it was more like 50:1, yet the manual trans cars are still the most desirable ones and they came back in favor in the '90's for sure. I don't think they will come back in vogue as the DCT trans are faster, where it used to be you sacrificed ease of use for the performance advantage of the manual, now it's faster to have the easier to use trans. But, the best cars of the '90's were all manual trans and most in the 2000's were as well, so a lot of the kids growing up then will still want one in 30-40 years.

 

I agree with this. I find guys like Sheehan to be similar to snake-oil salesman, pitching their wares as "best". Unfortunately, his "math" doesn't work.

I care less about how collectible a car is when compared to driving it, but since there is a market and people that analyze said markets, I'm going to put my 2 cents in. I'll use the oft referred to Corvette vs. E-Type analysis. In a nutshell, Corvettes from 1961 - 1967 have about 2-3x the production numbers of the E-Type, yet tend to be valued higher.

You can't argue exclusivity - the Corvette isn't (relatively speaking).
You can't argue technology or sophistication - the Jag is far more refined
You can't argue significance - the E-Type was one of the most significant production cars in history

So suggesting that any of the above - as it applies to Ferraris of a specific "era" is ridiculous. As Boxerman points out - the 288 is supremely collectible and desirable - and that's a "FIAT era" car per Sheehan.

I call hogwash on "exceptions" - the fact is collectibility is a black art...no, it's based almost purely on emotion. If the car is desired by a segment of people, it will be worth something. Otherwise, it won't...end of story. I personally would have a hard time paying the same for a 250GTE as I would for a 288 GTO (and if memory serves, the 250GTE is valued higher at the moment), because emotionally, the 250GTE is lame to me. The 288 is pure hell on wheels and I'd move mountains to get one.