David Piper restores the Talacrest P4

I think 0844 is also a Berlinetta so currently:

Berlinetta = 0844, 0848, 0850, 0854.

Spyder = 0846, 0856, 0858, 0860 plus 0900.

 

(I'm bored) According to Barchetta.cc:
#0844 was converted to a berlinetta by Piper, and yes it was a P3 converted to a 412P berlinetta by Ferrari for part of it's life.
#0848 P3 converted to a 412P but was a barchetta (spyder) for some time but now a berlinetta and has no Piper in it's history.
#0850 412P berlinetta also with no Piper involvement.
#0854 412P originally a berlinetta but a barchetta for some years and now back to a berlinetta with heavy Piper involvement over the years.

So berlinetta wise #0850 appears to be the most original with no major accidents recorded.
Pete

 

Dean Martin Jr. had 0850 in Spyder form in his ownership. Actually, it looked like a Berlinetta with the roof cut? Look at the tail.
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Oh ... none with all their original body work then .
Pete

 

0848 may have its original Berlinetta bodywork?

 

0854 now has it's original coupe body work. (except for roof panel)

All trama happened to Piper Replica fiberglass body work which he raced with.

0848's original body work was hit pretty hard at Le Mans and restored in the day by Ferrari.

The main important thing P car wise IMO is chassis integrity and the ability of the chassis to flow water, oil and fuel through it as it originally did. I personally know 0846/0854/0856 can. I think 0848 and 0860 can. When I last saw 0844 it couldn't and believe 0850 can't. When I last saw 0858 it was sweating at several chassis welds and I don't know if that will/can be repaired or if that is beyond repair and will have to be sleeved/lines run. Lots of photo's in 0846 thread and discussion of repair to leaks and pressure testing. If corrosion is caught in time water, oil and fuel can flow through the chassis tubes but it's VERY tricky to fix properly and requires a LOT of work and jigging. This is the main thing a P car buyer should look at IMO especially if one plans to actually drive theirs.

As an aside there's a number of Comp Ferrari's that I personally wouldn't drive at speed.

That said Comp cars that are accident free are rare and it's often luck what survives. When David had a shunt/ fire in 0854 the good news was that it wasn't wearing it's original body work and while the replica fiberglass body melted it's original chassis/engine/gearbox etc. survived. This is a photo of Le Mans crash damaged 0848.
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Absolutely. The form, function and fitment of the tubing is critical on many levels.

 

In the interest of preserving the tubes and preventing (further) corrosion isn't it essential to forsake originality and running water through the tubes as designed and use water lines or is there an additive that can prevent corrosion? Or are there water lines that run through the tubes?

 

+1

 

If you plan to use any car in competition(at least here in Europe) Running fluids through the chassis is not allowed.

 

True and that's why a proper restauration of a P car begins with completely dereviting the car and stripping it down to it's bear chassis. You then pressure test it and inspect every weld. You do this on every tube not only liquid bearing ones. The period correct welds are tricky and repairing them takes great skill. You also have to keep the chassis in proper position as you do this which requires massive jigging. Tube frame 917's are a case in point. When they raced Porsche installed pressure gauges on the pressurized chassis. When the driver noticed that the pressure was dropping he had a short time to react before the car came apart and killed him. There are Vintage chassis that are no longer safe to drive much less race and the first step in a proper P restoration is to deal with the chassis.
Once the chassis is repaired, straight and square can you properly fit the body. Unless you start with a proper dimension chassis you're just polishing a turd.

 

He's not promoting, he's defending.

Anyway, this project will be completed and eventually the market will speak. Until then...

 

Classic Le Mans/Tour Auto and other's have invited me to race with 0846 and 0858 exactly as they are and The Scrutinizers at The 24 Minutes of Daytona let me run as well.

In addition to maintaining the original balance and CG there's a more important reason that you don't want to change that in a 350 Can Am or a P4. In a spectacular bit of engineering that Ferrari also used in the 88 TR (Heat Transfer engineering in the TR ran AC line into and out of the fuel tank) in the 350 Can Am there is a concentric chassis tube system that runs the fuel tube inside of the water tube for a while which helps to make more HP by making the high PSI Mechanical FI system better able to vaporize fuel. IMO changing that original engineering is a very bad idea but insuring that those concentric chassis tubes are safe and corrosion free is a huge endeavor.
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0846 and 0854...

 

Correct. 0846/0854 Not 0858.

 

Caring what the market says is what got us into this mess in the first place. Even if the Piperized 0858 sells for top dollar, that doesn't make it right. Or even historically correct.

 

You can't ignore the market.

 

and this Piperised 0858 has been for sale for a long time. The market clearly thinks the 25mm$ asking price is LOL as another poster said.

 

Or History.

It WAS the last Can-Am, and rightfully should have remained as intact as it was, with the odd correction here and there to bring it up to not retro, but retired racer standards, be they Concours or otherwise, not Piper's Never Mind The Bollocks, Here's The Middlesex Pistol.

 

I think this applies to any car that you want to actually drive, not just look at, especially competition cars where if driven close to properly the chassis will be loaded.
Pete

 

I'm being ignored so JG won't see this post. Couldn't it just be simply that any prospective purchaser wants to see the end result before committing to spending $25m as is common sense really, rather than the price being "LOL" as per JG. I think it's an absolute bargain for what is one of 3 examples of the most beautiful Ferrari in the world, a '67 race winner, Championship contributor and clincher, as well as the ultimate expression of Ferrari in the Golden Age of Motor Sport.

 

That is a steap price even for a 250GTO and those can be entered in just about all classic or historic events. #0858 has very limited usability and thus won't attract the poseurs that just want to get in with the "in crowd". The market is expanded as a P4 but still considerably limited compared to a GTO and should be priced accordingly ... max $5m, surely.
Pete

 

The usability is a real factor as is the very limited ability to drive it on the road. Mechanical FI P's are a lot harder to use than carb 412P's. AFAIK I'm the only person in the World who has two road legal P's. (412P/P 3/4/P4/350 Can Am).

That said GTO prices have recently climbed very high (40MMUSD for a TOP one).

I was at 5mm e for 350 Can Am 0858 and now based on what's been done much less and agree with your 5mm USD figure.

 

Here's a pic from Mas du Clos, 1971, marked 350 Can Am, S/N 0860. Is this the same car? If so, my S/N info is incorrect. That's Pierre B in the blue helmet, about to make some loud noises around his own circuit.
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0860 is the car that the late PB and his family own.