Replicas, why bother ??

Like these?

Detection of Fakes

If you make a ferrari yourself out of gold it would be more expensive too. Doesn't mean you have the right to copy it's design

 

I thought you might appreciate these pics. The time is 2005. The place is the Historics at Mt. Tremblant. The mechanics (don't call them techs) worked all through the night to repair something and that included dropping the engine in the dirt. Old school, baby. Old school.

Dale

Edit: I musta done somebody wrong because I can't post the pics. Too bad, because they are really cool. Maybe someday further up the road.

 

I understand what you are saying. I have personally been ripped off on copyrights. However, I don't think you have to worry about your car. An imitation will always look like an imitation. So don't sweat it.

Dale

 

Don't know if this has already been reported here:

Meet The Internet Frauds Who Want To Sell You A Top Gear-Endorsed $49,000 Bugatti

They'll make you a LaFerrari replica

 

It's a "free world", but anyone spending $5k on a handbag is already throwing money away. It doesn't matter how this situation is played out.

 

Enjoy
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No, its NOT a free world. You can't just murder someone. You can't just steel from someone. You can't just crash into someone and run away.

There are rights and laws to protect people, their possessions, and their legal rights of ownership, including intellectual properties. That's why we have patents -- including design patents that protect the actual LOOK of the object, logo, or character you created.

When you have someone knock off your work, you are being vandalized and victimized. If you allow others to make a buck off your work without your permission, you rob the value of all those who bought their products from you --- your customers.

How do you think Stan Lee would feel if someone was making knock off Spiderman comics that looked just like his drawings? Do you think he would feel that's a compliment or do you think he'd be mad as hell?

 

Could care less if people have fake stuff. It's fake, PERIOD! If I buy something like a watch or some designer thing for my wife it's always from an authorized dealer. If someone wants to wear a fake, they bought off Ebay, that's great, they suck! I know what I have and buy what I want. I'm never concerned someone's fakes will detract from what I have. Could care less. I pay for and appreciate the quality of the real thing.

I find it hard to believe an owner of a Ferrari would ever be worried about some curvy red anemic sausage of a replica, that is unless they fear it is stealing their limelight!

 

Then you are at thief. There is no way around it.

You are actively involved and knowledgable in the theft of someone's work, no different than a fence who knowingly takes merchandise from someone's house that was robbed and uses it for his own personal benefit.

It is exactly the same thing.

You bought and used a stolen object. Sorry, you did.

What's amazing to me is if someone said "Hey buy this stolen TV from me" most here would call the cops with disgust. But, if you buy a fake object that robs the original creator or the company that makes them, it's something to celebrate and try to justify.

 

Check out this commercial regarding counterfeit cars! Scary stuff! Be careful out here!Counterfeit Mini - YouTube

 

WTF! Please read my post again, slower this time! How on earth did you come to this conclusion.

 

Sorry I miss read one word. Funny how English works that way.

I thought you said you could care less if someone owned a fake and that you didn't care if your wife bought them from ebay

I was wrong. You didn't say that. I apologize.

 

That's cool, I even went back to see how I worded that post. I always say if someone buys stolen goods, they can't complain if they get robbed!

 

Agree

Not hard to make a very accurate GTA. After all they all start off as pieces of metal and plastic.

Agree, but it does annoy me that the innocent party has to prove their car.

In the case of GTAs this is not the issue. The issue is that GTAs are worth a heck of a lot of money over a normal GT. Converting a GT to a GTA is not that expensive so there is a good profit to be made. They are not trying to build a recreation but end up with a real GTA to sell.

The real GTA does have provenance as us Alfa guys can tell you which GTA raced where for most of the 60's and 70's based on chassis number ... if the chassis number is duplicated then that copy also gets the provenance. Plus being race cars they were often rebuilt making it hard to challenge on details against photos.

Agree.

Agree that in most cases it is about enthusiasm.

Big Amen.

How, are they not exact replicas?

Best
Pete

 

Of the 38 Cob rep's advertised on 1 Aussie sales site ATM:
13 are auto's,2 are the new shape,2 are daytona coupe's..1 of those is advertised at a crutch-kicked $225000 and the whole flaming lot are advertised as................AC's.

The sales site has that as their 'brand of car'.

WRONG!

 

In the case where someone claims a redo of an alfa is an old GTA that is identity theft. Happens in every field every day. There were only so many GTA's made and by now I imagine most are known. I still think they must be hard to fake, was the car body not uniquely rivited, and using different guage aluminum. Anyway someone building a recreation and claiming its real is comiting fraud and Id theft. Of course some cars are ong gone, so their ID rises from the ashes is accepted and not questioned.

The SPF and pursang have enough subtle differences in certain places that someone who really knew what they were doing could tell pretty easily, and yet they are so similar in look function and build to the period piece that as an experience they are the same, they are accurate enough to be considered the real thing.

Now if you got a Dutton new build Bugatti, it would in theory be exact, exact, and the person who might differentiate is the one making it for you in the first place. The Bugatti owners club would sanction it too, because of its exactness. Sanction is desrieable feature because you can use it in old bugatti events,races etc, it would also be known and marked as what it is. Sanction also gives better resale. So unless someone is intent on comiting fraud, a sanctioned recreation is agood thing. If someone is intent on comiting fraud then any rules we make are no barrier and there are plenty of civil and criminal penalties.

BTW love the GTA, remember when they were a 50K car, and not having the money. I also like the 80''s SZ which the collector crowd has not picked up on yet, but when alfa relaunches in the US and has a resurgence will suddenly be one to have for your collection. So if you know of a good one, let me know.

 

Let me tell you that I do not think you will be disappointed. I also don't think I could ever truly enjoy a genuine, restored to original 1960s car. What I have is the same dimensions, same type of suspension setup, same type of steering feel and sound. But better brakes, a better shifting transmission with much better gearing, and modern EFI that doesn't require constant tweaking.

And still it is downright terrifying. There is so much power and absolutely no electronic aids of any kind. Every time I get out of the car I am shaking with adrenalin. If you want to pretend you are Alonso, get a 458. If you want to pretend you are a hero from the 60s, build a replica. I do not have the talent to drive an F1 car around an empty circuit, but I wouldn't fear for my life as the cars are incredibly safe. The guys that raced pre-1980 were absolute NUT JOBS! To go flat out in something like this down the straight at Le Mans in a GT40 or P4 or 917... in the dark... in the rain...

 

I agree with this in the case that the object being cloned is still being manufactured and sold. If it's not and is past the 14 year design patent window, you're not hurting the company that built and designed it as they aren't selling them any more. If I want a 250 GTO, whether I buy a real one or build a replica Ferrari doesn't get anything either way. Completely different to cloning a 458 that is currently being manufactured and sold and is (presumably) under design patent until ~2022. That aside, even after the design patent is long expired and the car is long past manufacture, passing it off as real is wrong.

 

To speak out against copies is to speak out against humanity imo. Sounds heavy, but copies of information and objects have been invaluable throughout history. They have contributed greatly to learning, understanding, and appreciating the most significant things in all of history. If everyone hoarded every original creation and kept it for themselves, we'd be nowhere. This is because the sharing of information and ideas is what drives value in the first place. One can very easily argue that it is in fact how widespread something is that drives value to the original.

Would the original constitution be devalued if everyone in the US had a replica of it on their wall?

Have famous works of art been devalued by the millions/billions of reproductions around the world in books and prints?

Have first edition books been devalued by the millions of modern copies?

I argue that if the value of something is destroyed or harmed by the presence of copies, then the original was insignificant and worth nothing more than the materials it was built with in first place.

Never have I seen the value of original works of art harmed by copies. Copies may hurt the sale of new original products, but never will they harm out-of-production works. If they do, it goes to show how little value those things really had.

 

Damn Romans and thier fakes and knock offs of Greek originals. When will the madness end?
Roman Copies of Greek Statues | Thematic Essay | Heilbrunn Timeline of Art History | The Metropolitan Museum of Art
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Haha nice. I also almost went with the Roman copies of Greek art argument. Praxiteles is rolling in his grave right now, I'm sure of it!

 

I have been meaning to ask you what it is like to drive your "fake" cars. It is my understanding that Shelby got as far away as he could from the original cobras. And, I'm guessing the GT is a monster.

Dale

 

The only time there is really a problem with any replica is when someone tries to pass it off as the real thing. To use Mayor's Chanel purse analogy, is the fact that the lady down the street owning a fake really affecting the ownership experience of your wife. If it does then I think her satisfaction comes more from other people knowing she paid $4kfor a purse than just owning a quality item. Maybe the lady down the street thinks $4k is a ridiculous price for a purse but it the color matches some shoes she bought so she buys a fake that is advertised as a fake and priced accordingly ($200). The problems start if the lady down the street tries to pass hers off as authentic and offers to sell it to Mayor's wife for $2500. Now there is dishonesty and potential fraud and that's not ok in anyone's book. Did the neighbor buying the fake take a sale away from Chanel? No because even if she could afford it she wouldn't pay $4k for a purse, ever. Who did suffer was Coach because they make a quality product in the price point of the fake.

I won't buy a fake watch or purse because I can't build it myself. I would build a Cobra because I have the skill set to do it (to a degree). If I ever came across someone who showed me a replica Rolex that they built, even if it was just assembling the pieces of a kit I would be impressed.

I don't agree with taking a perfectly good car and chopping it up to make a recreation. I didn't like it when Boyd Coddington wanted to chop up an all original Model T to build a hot rod either.

 

Amen Amen never been said better.

 

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