David Piper restores the Talacrest P4

Well I for one am sitting down here in South Africa with a wry smile on my face as your pages and pages of argument that this is the right thing to do have all come undone in one post, kudos though for posting the above.

Having said all the above it was a good debate but the above for me proves me point the car should have been left as a Can Am.

 

I doubt that anyone, Piper included, expected otherwise.

 

Well I am not so sure, when I look at how defended the conversion has been in this thread, some clearly thought it to be a good idea...

 

Steve,

After all the, sometimes rather marginal, discussion and the stance you chose in there, I commend you for digging deeper and posting the result. No doubt hearing this was a disappointing moment for you, but that aside.

Even if the debate took some out of this world twists, it was interesting, and, aside from learning quite a bit about the P-cars, we got to know you a little better.

Perhaps you find it in yourself to enlighten those who disagreed with you, which is most of us, how it came to be that you so fiercely stood your ground? I, for me, would really appreciate it.

Best,

Jack.

 

0858 wasn't rebodied into some 'lookalike'. The chassis was used by the factory to built a 350 Canam. It simply seized to be a P4 and I simply don't see how it can return to being a genuine P4. Certainly not by putting a replica body on it.

 

Mostly wishing and hoping.

Although with Classiche it sometimes seems that nothing's beyond the pale.

 

In this case it is quite clear cut: 0858 P4 seized to exist when 0858 Can Am was built.

0858 doesn't have the tipo engine that 0858 P4 had, and it wasn't replaced by an engine of the correct tipo.

Therefor, chassis and drivetrain are incomplete as P4.

End of story.

Best,

Jack.

 

Excellent news, and that is without one drop of schadenfreude. Hopefully Piper et al. will embrace, distill and restore the only Can Am to it's very essence of being.

 

This makes me feel pretty good.

 

I read somewhere that the pre accident body on 250 GTO 3445GT was made using the English Wheel. Now if that is the case, and that the front of the car has been rebodied at the factory or factory approved body shop using the Traditional Hammered Italian method after last year's accident, the body on the car, front and back, will have been made using the 2 different methods. My point is that the end result between the 2 differing methods cannot be very different or the finish on the front would be different to the back on the car and will not match. So the end result of the English Wheel body being made by David Piper cannot be that different to one being made the Italian Hammered way???? Of course if the pre accident body on 250 GTO 3445GT was made the Italian way then the above is meaningless. I am also assuming, which is always dangerous, that the damaged front end has been rebodied rather than repaired.

No doubt my theory will be blown out of the water by people who have actual experience of the differing methods and their end results, as I admittedly do not, and that's fine. This is only me thinking out loud.
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Maybe on the premise that there is a fool born every day?

Although at this level the fools are not as plentifull as the fools undertaking the abortion.

 

The length of time that this Piperised "abortion" has remained unsold at it's "LOL" asking price of 25MM USD proves your point.

 

Huh? Not sure what Piper gets for the job and what the resto costs but considering what they paid for the CanAm car I doubt they lose money on this. The quoted $25MM may be wishful thinking but even at half that price there's still most likely a nice profit so tears will be scarce I suppose.

 

Do tell what they paid for the 350 Can Am 0858. Keep in mind that the person posting the "end in tears" quote you referenced VERY likely knows exactly how much they did and has a bit of experience in these matters.

 

How likely is it that we'll know the real selling price?

 

These things usually come out. I for one know EXACTLY what 350 Can Am 0858 could have been bought for when my bid was NS's at the auction as RM worked very hard to get me to budge from what I was willing to pay. (There's a video of Rob working on me just before the NS in that auction thread) Personally I think the poster who said "end in tears" will turn out to be correct.

 

If there's a lesson to be learned it may be the one saving grace.

 

Guaranteed NEVER.......

 

After Robs Lamplough's late-1970s road accident in 3445GT, Maranello Concessionaires sent the car to the Ferrari factory to be repaired, whereupon the decision was taken to remove the damaged Drogo coachwork and undertake the construction of a new Series I body. Pursuant to that wish, Ferrari commissioned the fabrication of new Series I coachwork which of course got produced locally in Modena, etc.

 

After watching qualy a Monaco this thread makes the day.Everyone involved should be congratulated. Unless I have missed something the Piper rebuild has a ways to go yet. Any ideas on an ETA for completion? The $25M price is a fishing trip and nothing more. My guess is there may be much more going on behind the scenes. Comments??? tongascrew

 

Thanks, Terra for your clarifying that it was Ferrari that commissioned the fabrication of the body for 3445GT meaning that it will be 100% Traditional Italian Hammered. I did ask in another thread who made it but nobody replied.

 

Could you imagine what it would feel like if we could overcome the complexities of a fund that would allow us all to contribute and buy this single example and preserve her as a CanAm?

Maybe she could spend the rest of our lives moving around the world and giving us chances to be a part of her preservation and love. A lap or two every few years for whatever I could give would be worth every cent for something this exciting.

At the very least it would get us out from BS arguing behind keyboards and back out to the world where she is supposed to be. She should be revered, driven, and preserved.

Don't know where this came from or if it is just dumb and naive, but...

 

Understood, David. Not intending to quibble with words, but predicting at what price any object in commerce will sell is not a market price. Even the phenomenally experienced folks whose entire lives are devoted to running high-end automobile auctions make nothing more than well-educated guesses of the ultimate selling prices of their offerings. Highly experienced and reputable Bonhams' high-low estimate for its auction last January of my old speciale 330/365GTC was $400K-$500K. In the event, the hammer price was an astonishing $800,000. Even given that it is a unique - truly one-of-a-kind - car, together with commission the buyer paid an unbelievable $880,000. That was the market for that car in Scottsdale AZ that evening. After the bidding breached the half-million dollar mark there remained just two bidders. Had the [losing] bidder stopped bidding at - say - $625K, that would have been the market. Extremely efficient!

 

How many 250 GTOs, 250 TRs, 750 Monzas, 500 MDs etc etc are certified or "considered" original with complete or near complete repoduction body work? Should a P series Ferrari be judged by a different standard? tongascrew

 

I know for a fact that 15MUSD was offered for the car, by someone that has a fantastic vintage Ferrari collection. There is another offer I know of, that was 13MUSD. There may be higher offers on the car, but at the time when the 15MUSD offer was made it was considered to a be a high offer. There may be a large profit to be made on the car, but the real offers that have been made on the car that I know of are nowhere near 25MUSD. By the way they paid more for the car than the high bid at auction. To me at least, this is a big gamble and as I said earlier the spotlight is rarely forgiving.

It's going to be VERY interesting to see who buys this car in the end and what they do with it. Everywhere that car goes a VERY gray story will follow it. Personally I wonder how long it will keep it's english wheel body. I hope you're well. See you in August!