David Piper restores the Talacrest P4

When you take 1.2mm alloy sheet, after hammering between ~0.8-1.0mm thickness is left.
Normally every vintage race Ferrari had such very thin alloy body and no filler or at least not much!
Look at the many photos in the books JOE HONDA Sportscar Spectacles 1 and 2; you can see that today most cars have concours paint/bodies whereas in the 50s/60s race teams did not care, thin bodies, less paint, no filler, save weight! WINNING was important Dents!? Who cares?
FYI 6885GT has its original very thin alloy body

 

No, but if judged by the same standard, you'd have to be talking about a reproduction of the Canam body. 0858 hasn't been a P4 for over 40 years and doesn't become a P4 with a repro body on it.

 

Amen. Incredible how this particular car gets people worked up when theres so many originality offenses on cars that are considered perfectly original right before everyone's eyes.

 

This has nothing to do with replica bodies.

It's a 350 Can Am with a different typo motor/HP/chassis (603 C)/body/weight/fuel capacity/etc./etc./etc.

Fitting it with an incorrectly made replica P4 body doesn't make an original 350 Can Am a P4. The fact that it's been on offer as a Piperised P4 for a long time without a sale shows many clearly understand that fact.

 

Expect some big magazine features to try and raise interest in the car.....

 

Human-Athletes have been stripped of Medals.

Some went on to achievements worthy of posterity.

Vehicle-Athletes have been stripped of Metals.

Some went on to achievements worthy of posterity.

Same difference.


via rubber ducky

 

AFAIK the car's not finished yet, so not sure how you come to the conclusion that this will sit unsold for a long time. If I were a deep pocketed collector with an interest in purchasing Id wait until its finished, too.

The fact that it hasnt changed hands for a while only proves that the original CanAm car was unattractive to the usual crowd at that price, nothing else.

 

Many vintage Ferraris change hands mid restoration including GTOs. They trade on implied value and the implied value of certain shops reputations/restorations. This car has been publicly available for quiet awhile and no one has stepped up to the plate. After all it is the only "P4" for sale currently in the world, you would think someone would have bought the only "P4" for sale in the world, by now, right? Especially considering the fact Piper is "the most experienced P4 expert in the world", right? The truth is no one wants what it is at 25MUSD. If someone wanted it for 25MUSD, someone would have bought it by now. Too many people have seen what is going on now. What they should have done, if they were going to 'restore' the car is sent to Ferrari quietly and sold it even quieter. Maybe they would have made their target figure then, maybe just then, but probably not. Too many people see it as a destroyed CanAm car with a replica body, incorrect chassis, wrong engine, wrong gearbox and wrecked history, Ferrari and myself included, and then there's the flip side of that some people view this as the rebirth of a "P4" and that right there is a huge issue. Both sides have a point, at least to their side, and that is kind of divisive rhetoric makes this car a huge gamble even before the word go.

 

It's been on offer Piperised for 25MM USD for a long time. That is fact.

 

True. True.

 

That option is still on the table.

Once they got the body sorted out, 0858 CanAm/P4 hybrid will be one of the more original Ferrari race cars around.

 

Perhaps Jim's opinion, as the owner of 0846 and 0854, truly is representative of the way potential buyers look upon this project. If it is, than this whole ordeal has nothing to do with restoring a genuine P4 but everything to do with the destruction of a 350 Canam and everyone, from the current owner to everyone remotely interested in vintage Ferrari's, will have lost.

 

Incorrect information. Ferrari Classiche have confirmed that the tipo 603R gearbox in 0858 was also used when in 330 P4 configuration, as well as 350 Can Am.

 

The engine in 0858 was swapped out on several occations by S F and when the car was converted to the CanAM spyder by S F what ever engine was in it at the time had its bore increased by 200 cc also by S F which was the only signifigant change to the engine. What ever engine block is in the car now is as far as I know of the P 3/4 series type so all the more reason why the car can be legitimately restored back to its original P4 configuration. tongascrew

 

Post 741

 

The comment highlighted in red is the real reason, not the engine. I do find it amusing that Ferrari suddenly care ...

If #0858 had been converted back to a P4 before #0844 there would be less tearing of hair out. There is no other reason for us to get so passionate. The chassis was and is always a modifed P4, and yes Ferrari did the modification but whoopie doos ... it was a half baked effort to join the then popular Can Am series without actually trying hard enough to be competitive. Quite honestly not sure why they bothered.

Note the last surviving 100% original prototype Ferrari in Can Am form IS a bloody good reason to get passionate ... but lets not keep at all the other weak excuses, getting boring!
Pete

 

Not even remotely close.

Perhaps you were thinking of 0460.
375 MM PF Spyder 0460AM

 

Indeed an amusing or should I baffling part of this story is that suddenly Ferrari starts caring about that particular car.....and vice versa......even more baffling that collectors care about Ferrari's opinion on this subject after all the BS that went down with Classiche already, let alone the fact that they didnt give a damn about classics for 40+ years.

 

Well said. tongascrew

 

Pete

This is about taking the last original 350 Can Am existent which has a different Typo engine, different typo chassis, different sized fuel cells, different typo body, different weight and balance, different sized wheels and tires, different gearbox ratios, etc. ,etc. than a P4 and claiming this car a "P4" because of it's Piperisation which includes the fitting of an incorrectly made Replica "P4" Body.

Potential buyers so far have not jumped at the chance to buy Piperised 0858 which I believe is because they understand exactly what 0858 now is and now isn't.

No more. No less.

Best!

 

Well said. Besides, I'm sure if the check were large enough and a few other bits procurred, Ferrari would jump on board with the return of 0858 to its original configuration.

 

The Ferrari CanAm effort was as I recall a largely Chinetti idea sold to E.F. in an effort to quickly put the Ferrari name in the headlines of the growing popularity of CanAm in North Ameica where Chinetti and others sold a lot of road cars. The Ford GT 40s were also a mounting challange as were the British F1 cars. The S.F. CanAm effort was pretty "half baked" and so the Springbok series looked like easy pickings during the off season up north. No CanAm car by any manufacturer is any way equal today to a Ferrari P 2/3/4. So why should 0858 an original P4 be remembered as a "half baked" CanAm car. tongascrew

 

Most Ferraris were evolutionary in design and there were strong similarities (and shared components and systems) between what are universally recognized as distinct models.
Isn't that what we're seeing here?
That the CanAm shares structure with the P4 doesn't make it one.

 

agree

 

Because that's what it is. Ferrari history is not only made of victories.