Has F1 outgrown Monaco

Obviously not given your earlier comment.

 

You may indeed know the layout of the track with your eyes closed but you clearly don't seem to know the difference between a hairpin and a chicane.

>8^)
ER

 

Monaco is a delightful anachronism and quite the spectacle. What it isn't is a modern GP.
The cars even need their front suspensions redesigned just to get around the hairpin.
It still deserves its place on the calendar. Just not as a points race.

 

Have to completely disagree. if you take Monaco out of F-1 - its not F-1 anymore. just like F-1 without Ferrari is not F-1.

someone here said it already - you build the cars to suit the circuit.. not the otherway around. F-1 has gone so far to the extreem in controlling the show there is no spontaneous action.

Monaco was / has been the scene of some of the most exciting races - from the 30's to today.

1984 - Senna blasting thru the field in the RAIN... almost taking Prost...
1985 - battle with Prost & Alboreato... stunning driving by Alboreato...
1990 - Senna & Alesi...
Schumachers victory - snatched when his rear a arm failed due to the heat...
Patrese victory when everyone else dropped out..
Jack Brabham losing the race in 1970 at he last turn...
Moss in Rob Walkers Lotus beating the Ferrari's....

Monaco is a great track, requires skill and finesse... something that drivers today dont value as they have all the room in the world on other tracks...

The thought that anyone who is an F-1 fan thinks Monaco should be excluded? I question your understanding of F-1 at all.

 

monaco is F1. period. its just a hyper version of what F1(and all racing) really is. a promotional gig for all corporations.
real tracks? real racing? with self destructing tires??
the real question is has F1 outgrown F1?

 

Monaco allows teams, sponsors and fans to pretend that F1 still has a bit of tradition.
It may be a fantasy but its a good one.

 

F1 has excluded tracks before. The world didnt stop. If Monaco and its procession goes the world will turn. Nostalgia is nice but its hardly a race in the sense of competition. Its a display that would like to be a race. Yes it has drama so does Spa etc. How much more would you like to discuss about what happend in Silverstone or Watkins Glen. We have no shortage of stories and drama in F1. Its not just Monaco.

 

Completely disagree, sorry!

Yes, the cars are too big, yes it can be boring to some people.

+1,000 (and I don't do that very often )

The drivers continue to love it. The majority of the fans love it. Fortunately for us, Bernie loves it - He gives 'em the damn race! He at least recognizes its value to the sport. Throw in its importance to sponsors & muckety-mucks and it will continue to be around for a long time yet.

Cheers,
Ian

 

I wrote on another site:

"just one frigging comment on Monaco, a race that I attended over fifty years ago. It is not Formula 1 because it is not a race, it is an automobile procession, If there were not the history, the tradition and the "glamour" of the Prinicipality it would have been abandoned many decades ago as both boring and unsafe. The drivers love it due to that glamour but I am certain that they detest it, EXCEPT for the driver who qualifies fastest and takes the pole. That said, all hail Nico about whom I recollect writing two years ago on one chat site or other that given a competitive car he had the talent to be a multiple world champion. Obviously his qualifying run Saturday was superb and his drive yesterday was flawless."

That said, I believe there is about as much chance of Monaco disappearing from the calendar as there is of squeezing milk out of a bull.

 

All good reasons to keep running it.
Not reasons for awarding points.

 

Everyone loves Monaco the weekend. Few respect Monaco the race. And there's nothing wrong with either opinion.

 

perez's driving was horrific.

 

why did vettel say post race that he was "stuck behind a bus"?

 

I guess I'm misunderstanding the meaning of "tradition".

It simply doesn't get more traditional than Monaco!

It may not throw up classic races as often as some (but not many!) other places, but we've seen some damn good ones over the years. [Thanks to Tom for a few reminders BTW.]

A procession? I thought that's what the "purists" wanted to return? Anyway, if it were, MerHam wouldn't have been passed by the Cans. Sooty wouldn't have passed Fred and so on.

Does anyone subscribe to Autosport? Do they still publish their lap charts? Or anyone know anywhere else that does? I'd like to know how many changes of position there were? I suspect we'd be surprised.

Strategy is arguably more important than anywhere else. I see nothing wrong with that. It's an engineering challenge. It remains one of the very best tests of drivers. (It's no coincidence that Ayrton won it 6 times!)

I'm firmly with Tom on this one; No Monaco? It would no longer *be* F1.

Cheers,
Ian

 

It usually is but in Monaco there's even less room than usual for his antics.

Ignoring team orders (yet again) he set fast lap late in the race (by two to four seconds) just to show how much quicker he could have gone if passing were an option.

 

+1 It doesn't suffer fools gladly. Unlike the Tllke domes with monster run off areas et al. Long may it continue!

I suspect most of them could have gone 2-4 seconds faster had they wanted to. Shame he didn't put it in the barrier IMO!

Cheers,
Ian

 

If by tradition you mean authentic glitz and tinsel.


"Whores, old buildings and politicians all get respectable, if they last long enough"
Chinatown



No one wants a return to processional races. It's just that some aren't willing to accept any and all indignities in exchange.

Lewis was passed when in the pits. Other passes were made by drivers with little to lose and much to gain over ranked drivers looking for a points finish.

 

Not to mention 60+ years of history.

Very true. And long may it continue!..... We've long known the WDC is a marathon, not a sprint.

Cheers,
Ian

 

Ooh a bit harsh of late Ian.
A bit of anticipatory separation anxiety?


The tight track gives the brash young guns with something to prove a chance to intimidate their older brethren looking to finish in the points.Not a plus.

No doubt others could have gone faster. But that just reinforces the point.

I love Monaco and would hate to see it go (there's only one or two tracks I'd miss more) but there's no need to make it count toward the championships.

 

Again, good reasons to keep it on the calendar. Not reasons to make an anachronistic anomaly a points race.

 

Again, I beg to differ. It's been a points scoring race since the dawn of the sport. I see absolutely no reason why that should change.

Cheers,
Ian

 

We'll leave it at that then.

 

I never said there was a chance it would. If it did no loss.

 

It was obvious to me the Texan was talking about the joke that is 10 & 11. That is the worst "hairpin/chicane" in all of racing. I am surprised they don't make the drivers use reverse there.

The answer is Yes. The cars are butt ugly, the engines weak and quiet, the drivers an odd bunch of pretenders in comparison to their predecessors, and the tracks boring. No need for the change in 86 to the chicane, no need of the St. Devote change, and no need for constant pile-ups on the 1st lap.

See above



You guys should watch that coverage of the 65 race to see the interviews of Moss, Graham Hill, Bruce Mclaren, Vorhees, and Phil Hill before the race. Also watch the start with a lecture from the steward. What a difference to todays kids. Same with the 80's, Keke from 86 still looks like the dad and Nico the kid today.

 

Beg to differ.

1 - It's not a hairpin, it's a pretty darn good chicane. Absolutely required to keep speeds somewhat under control.
2 - I'm gonna guess you've never been? Watching them *dance* around the swimming pool (for example) is nothing short of awe inspiring. The speed they change direction and the precision with which the guys plant them and go is highlighted by the proximity of the barriers etc. Boring it is not.

With respect, have you *ever* seen them live? "Weak & quiet!" suggests not.

No pile up this year.

It would appear you want to return to the days where we lost 2-3 per year? No thanks!

Cheers,
Ian