Ferrari to submit info on tyre test? WTF

The old trick of sh*t and a fan.

Probably they realize it´s not only Mercedes and/or Pirelli´s fault and are trying to sweep the issue under the carpet. Soon they´ll offer some kind of bonus to Ferrari and Red Bull and everything will be forgiven.

 

Non issue as Ferrari complied completely with the rules. Mercedes used a current car hence the issue and review.

 

Apparently the rules state the car from testing must be substantially different than the 2013 car. Teams assume this to be a car more than two years old but it is not set in stone. Pirelli paid Corse Clienti and not the F1 team to run the car.

What I find surprising is how come no one at Ferrari noticed Merc were running the new car and said something at the time?

 

I'm seriously starting to lose interest in F1 because of all this crap.....

 

I still enjoy watching, and to a certain extent I agree with you. It's kind of sad the tires would have such a big role in dictating the outcome of races. At the same time is has been making stategy and set-up by the teams much more interesting.

It seems rather odd to me that Mercedes was allowed to use a current car and drivers even though Pirelli's contract supposedly says it is allowed. Also seems rather odd that the wear issues they have been experiencing suddenly vanished after thier participation in the testing.

Seems like a lot of the good ole boy, squeaky wheel syndrome if you ask me.

 

When you start stirring the pot you don't know what may bubble up.

Dragging Ferrari into the investigation increases the appearence of impartiality.

 

I wouldn't draw that conclusion after Monaco, necessarily. It's a very unique circuit where it's most important to qualify up front so that you can control the processional. There is no real 'flat out' racing. We don't know if they've solved their tire issues.

Ferrari did not submit a report following their test with Pirelli, so I would suppose that Merc is crying about their "secret test" so Ferrari is now compelled to share their results.

 

The fact that Seb was able to turn a fast lap two or three seconds faster speaks to how easy the leaders were going.

 

I could have more or less guaranteed that Merc would have won with or without testing.

Alonso and Kimi both said it, and that's before the testing came to light.

AFAIK Merc could be back to square one in Canada regarding the tyres, the trouble is if they have made any genuine advances in their tyre wear problem, it will have the about it.

 

+1

However, it does seem the FIAs trying to figure out what the hell happened. While there is that pesky "substantially the same" clause I think they're in the clear;

- Car was run Corsa Clienti, not the race team. [Do we know who drove it?]
- Pirelli themselves claim a 2011 car is of limited use.

Merc OTOH are going to get sanctioned IMO.

Cheers,
Ian

 

Yup.
MB will qualify well and then fade.

If they know what's good for them.

 

You are correct sir.... It's starting to feel like ALL that is happening (and has happened in the past) is being scripted as part of a "show".

 

I'd say it's more a case of smoke and mirrors!

The FIA have realised just how big a headache this issue is going to cause and are now desperately trying to cloud the issue by pointing the finger elsewhere.

Rule 22 of the 2013 SPORTING REGULATIONS actually states:

22) TRACK AND WIND TUNNEL TESTING:

22.1 Track testing shall be considered any track running time not part of an Event undertaken by a competitor entered in the Championship, using cars which conform substantially with the current Formula One Technical Regulations in addition to those from the previous or subsequent year. The only exception is that each competitor is permitted up to eight promotional events, carried out using tyres provided specifically for this purpose by the appointed supplier, to a maximum distance of 100kms per event.

It seems to Me that the FIA are tripping over their own poor use of the English language!

Breaking rule 22 down, the first car excluded is a car that conforms to the current Formula One Technical Regulations (so that's any 2013 car - Oh dear Mercedes!)

Next up are cars from the previous season - So that rules out 2012 cars.

But then it states: "...or subsequent year".

Now the definition of subsequent is:

sub·se·quent (sbs-kwnt, -kwnt) adj. :Following in time or order; succeeding

As I see it, the succeeding year to 2012 was 2013, so basically the FIA have ruled out 2013 cars twice!

I suspect the FIA were trying to incorporate the 2011 cars but to the letter of their own Law, they've failed to do so!
The rule should have stipulated: Cars from the preceeding year to the previous season, not the subsequent year.

No one at Ferrari (or any other team for that matter), knew the test was taking place so they wouldn't have known which car was being used.


As it stands, Ferrari have no case to answer because the FIA rules on testing fail to rule out 2011 cars and Mercedes are in breach of the rules for running a 2013 car.

It seems Gary Anderson is another who is struggling to understand how the Mercedes test was within the rules (From: BBC Sport - Gary Anderson column: Can Mercedes keep the pace going? ):

"I struggle to find a regulation that says that test was legal, but obviously they think it's OK, so we will have to find out what comes of that now it has been referred to governing body the FIA. "

As I say, it seems to Me that the FIA are desperately trying to cloud the issue a bit because this situation could snowball into a much bigger issue for them, but I don't think Ferrari has anything to worry about (unlike Mercedes!).

 

Is English the official language of the FIA when it comes to rules?
We keep seeing situations where the rules are either ambiguous or contradictory.
Is it intentional? Allowing flexibility of interpretation.
Or just sloppy?
Or bad translations?

 

Due to the international nature of F1, I would say that English is the language used for all matters relating to the rules and regulations that control F1, in order for all involved to be able to interpret and understand them correctly.

If this proves to be the case then the FIA have shot themselves in the foot and Ferrari have nothing to worry about.

However, there has for a long time been a train of thought that when it comes to testing, cars could not be from the current or previous season, and this must have come from somewhere.

It is possible though that I am the first person to have spotted a legal flaw in the FIA's wording and interpretation of the testing rule, in regards to the age of the car, and if that is the case, Ferrari can use it with My blessing!

Now whilst I'm blowing My own trumpet, lets have a go at: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_Lyr4NjozA]Louis Armstrong - Mack The Knife (1958) [Digitally Remastered] - YouTube[/ame]

Could have been written for Bernie!

 

Yes.

In this example at least, I beg to differ. Reads perfectly clearly to me; You may not run this years, last years or next years cars.....[EDIT, not just next years, but any subsequent year of course ]

No ambiguity there whatsoever IMO....

Cheers,
Ian

 

Thinking about it, you're right, the way the rule is written it could be seen to relate to the current (2013) car, the preceeding seasons car (2012), and the succeeding car to the current 2013 car: The 2014 car.

Based on both interpretations of the rule, it's impossible to see how the FIA can query the Ferrari tyre test!

Mmmm.............

 

Being very pedantic, they've outlawed not just "next" years car, but any 2015 (or other subsequent ) variation. Very nice!.....

Not really; [EDIT 2! Sorry, misread your comment; +1, the FIA's on very thin ice... ]

I believe they ran a 2011 car. That it was run by Corsa Cliente & not the team just kinda helps their case.

Now, as noted in the other thread, there's a little question over "car substantially the same as todays" being an issue - But again, Pirelli themselves claim 2011 cars are no good, even though they are indeed "substantially the same".....

Cheers,
Ian

Munch
Munch

 

Munch
Munch.....

Hope they've got that last bit in writing......

Munch
Munch

Cheers,
Ian
Http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107821

 

That's been my understanding of it.

>8^)
ER

 

+1

Further though, as written you can't even run your 2018 car....

Seems to me "subsequent" is the perfect word.....

Cheers,
Ian

 

it all is very annoying.