Replicas, why bother ??

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It's not a Ferrari, but is being represented as one. (The Ferrari badge on the bonnet looks like a Ferrari badge.)

Dishonest.

 

I see minature model builders all the time making copies not original designs. Design is a comnpletly different talent stream.

Here is the conundrum. If you chop an original old car then you can put ferrari badges on it because its essentialy to paraphrase Jim a coachbuilt ferrari. Yet if its completly scratch built nut and bolt copy you cant rightfully put ferrari badges on it. Now ifpeople were not such snobs we could accept carbon copies with different badges and ostracise chops. This qaowul actualky save old cars, and the fact that the new car is a copy would be plain to see, yet for the driver the experience of the drive would be there. Is this not what lynx did with their XKSS, its called a lynx not a jaguar, but they are well regarded and accepted for what they are in jaguar circles.

Thjere is a way around this, accept and validate recreations, then rules avbout what is acceptable can be put in place. The FIA already does this. Liecvsed cars can of course be legaly badged, but once again they are then known continuations.

the people against this are those thta dont have them, usualy dont even have aferrari. Its like if I cant have it you cant too. There are different tiers of GTO's. There are some still mostly original and unrestored. tehre are those that have been seriously wrecked and rebuilt, there are those thta really are copies but have legitimate claim to a serial number so can be reun in old events. Then there are recreations, scratch built nut and bolt, and chops. We all want to ban Chops, the best way is to accept nut and bolt coipies using all new parts. Acceptance means ability to use, ostacism in the case of chops means limited use and less incentive.

 

Same as this. Another massive FAIL!
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Yeah really interesting. Yet so many people refer to Dinos as ferrari dinos. then you have the 308GT4, not labeled a fewrrari till 77 or so. What happens if you take an earlier 308GT4 and put ferrari badges on it?

Personaly i thinbk its much cooler to have Dino badges. But if a 308Gt4 canhave ferrari badges can a fiat Dino. Or if a fiat dino cant, can a dino have ferrari badges. You know boidies built by scalieti motor designed by ferrari but built by fiat. I am confused, or is it apurely a trademark thing?

 

Ok so this argument is just getting crazier and crazier. Now you say one has to have owned a Ferrari to realize replicas are so wonderfull! Let try to keep the discussion REAL! If all that matters is the driving experience, then loose the emblems! They don't change the driving characteristics, do they? But it will change what people think when they see it go down the road. Badged fake = POSER.

 

And lose the deceptive body design.

It comes back to a comment "noone" posted earlier: fakes are all about looks.

What's the point in sticking a Ferrari badge on something you welded up in your own garage? Use your own surname, not someone else's. And this one even has racing shields, wrongly implying that it raced somewhere.

 

The term fake which you use constantly betrays your perspective, even though you have agreed previously that a licenced copy .

I have never said you have to have owned a ferrari. I just observe that those most vociferous dont own ferraris which is curious and speculate as to the motivation. The people who are saying the least or nothing are those that own the so called multi million dollar cars, yet their opinion would carry more weight than out idle chatter. The only example we have of a serious car collector commenting is that of Leno, and he is pro. We also see that the owner of the donington race circut in the uk(cant remember his name) a serious collector, built an exact bugatti royale for his use. If i remmebr correctly he worked out the cost of building a nut and bolt copy vs buyinng one and concluded that it would be crazy to pay all that extra foir an old one, and he has the money.

We do know by rumour and sales hype on certain copies that a significant number of old ferrari collectors have copies. Same with D type jaguars. To you all copies are fakes, although technicaly if they are chops its really a custom body and can be badged.

 

Fakes are about looks. Carbon copies are about driving experience. But yes I agree putting a ferrari bage and sheilds implies something into the pose category. Lets not forget though that this capy to which you refer is probably a chop so can wear the badge as its a rebody.

As to sheilds, at least a copy of an aold racing cart which won has some nexus. What about all those new 458's running around valet reteraunts with sheilds, just in case you didnt realise its an EXPENSIVE FERRARI anyway. To me sheilds shoudl only be worn on a race car with winning history, anything else new or old is a pose. But I guess some people just like the style. I pretty much never see a new ferrari with sheilds being driven hard, which tells you a lot about the owners motivation.

But yes we agree, if its a nut and bolt copy from new bits, it cant have af errari badge unless sanctioned by them. Still want that nut and bolt no name 288 though. the drivign experiece does not require a horsey on the grill.

But a chop, thats no different to putting a hemi in a lesser cuda body. Its not authentic spec from the factory, but it can wear the badge as the oily bits and chassis come from the manufacturer. See its many shades or grey here. Now you say a real hemi cuda is authenticated, and i say so is a real old build GTO. But yes old 2+2 ferraris are pretty rare so we shoudl rpeserve them, I say take away the profit incentive, santion recreations from new parts ostracise chops, a sadly the opposite is true in ferrari owning circles.

 

As Jim mentioned all these replicas tend to do is muddy and dillute the history Ferrari.

 

Yes chops do, recreations from new bits do not. Does putting a non origional block in a cuda or making a 70 z28 clone not muddy the waters there, or do they make for more cool cars, do they allow someone to experience an ultimate muscle car for 50K thatw oudl otherwise cost 200k. Seriously if its declared whats the harm. The only harm I see is from chops, or from people claiming two different cars both having some origional parts are in fact the one race car. If its new build and declared as such then its crystal clear.

As to the GT 40 Mk4 the owners or the car craft license have built a few more. These comply with FIA historic rules and can be raced. If we have proper procedures for licensed recreations there is no confusion.

To me what is confusing is where a GT40 has its roof chopped off for filming amovie, then burns to ashes, yet somehow appears last year claiming to9 have been restored. This sia n ew build with old chassis plate, but it creates confusion because it has an old chassis number.

 

It's either a Ferrari -- original, or rebuilt or restored from an original -- or it isn't.

Sticking a Ferrari badge on a fake is all ego, and probably does the cross the line from morally dishonest to legally wrong.

(A 458 with shields may look wrong to a lot of us, and I definitely wouldn't go that route, but it's a Ferrari. Ferrari can do what it wants with its own brand.)

The heroes in the vintage and classic Ferrari world are people like Massini, who are documenting the real cars so that those of us interested in the cars have a basis for separating the Ferraris from the endless fakes that muddy the issue.

 

There is no problem with what I have said earlier. Licenced is not a fake. Fake is fake. I think people are missing a very basic understanding which is odd because of the extent of this thread. Sheilds for example can be used anyway Ferrari wants. It's their concept, their history to do with what they please.

 

Depends on what's under the skin. If it's all Ferrari drivetrain and Ferrari sourced parts, It's not dishonest. If the owner represents it as original, it would be dishonest.

You can buy OEM Ferrari badges from your favorite Ferrari parts supplier and you can legally stick them on whatever you want. What you can't do is advertise one of these as an original Ferrari, but I think everybody knows that.

 

Its just ironic that I can chop a great old ferrari and put ferrari badges on the resluting thing, the badges and maranello oily bits somehow makign it desireable and accetable to some. Yet if I make a carbon copy of an unproteceted design, not destrying anyhting, dont put ferrari badges on it. If I am doing it puerly for the drive then somehow its a fake and all terrible. If I make the exact same recreation but find a ruting piece of metal with an old chassis plate, but nothing in my recreation came from marenello its still an old ferrari with provenance.

In any event my goals are; First to prevent chops, secondly to allow those of us mere financial mortals, those entusisat drivers with under 1 mill to spend to be able to enjoy some of the greats(not just ferrari), now that the investment class has taken these "icons" into a different category. Thirdly to preserve the original old cars as much as poissible while allowing racers and spectators to experience the thing in a non staic form as designed, this accomplished with recreations.

As to whether racing a recreation is real for the spectator, frankly most of what passes for historic racing cars on a track are recreations as the original bits wore out, crashed away or rusted long ago. Its GW;s axe.

Ferrari as Jim pointed out has a recreation of 001, its still a ferrari in form, just a new 001. Yes its licensed, but its still a recreation. the issue is declaration.

Look there are no flying old me 262's so some folks made some new ones for historic airshows. the old ones sit in meseums, the new builds represent the old ones in the skies, everyone knows they are new builds, which does not take away from how cool they are, same with Fw 190's.

Once you pull something historic out a meusuem where it sat after a war, or racing and restore it, you have ruined it, its justa facimile with soem real parts.

I agree about the licensing part, I am talking about the larger principle.

If you think that any recreation is to pose, then I suggest you have never driven pro[perly. The prime reson to build a recreation is for the driving experience, at least from what i can see.

A fiero rebody may well be different, but we are not talkign about that. We are atlkign about a machine recreated in every way so that its essence is intact to be experienced.

 

Badges don't change the way a car performs. To say so is comical.

 

Seems many here are in love with a notion that one can just make their own Ferrari out of Ferrari parts and just won't let this fallacy go.

 

Correct, and some of us only care about how it performs, the badge is irrelevant.

 

Yet it is critical to the illusion!

 

Some do seem to drive exactly like the originals as this Lotus 7 "clone" shows us...

Wheel Flies Off Automobile while driving a kit car - YouTube!

 

Very well stated, sir. Well thought out, great post.

I can't speak for the motivations of others, but if I were to ever buy/build a recreation (I REALLY love C-Type Jags, for example), I would be doing it purely, 100% for the feel of driving the thing. I would seek out one that was constructed as closely as possible to the original thing, because that is the feeling I would be wanting to explore. I would have no interest in, say, a fiberglass rebody on some other chassis.

Approximately 3.54 people in the state of Mississippi even know what a C-Type Jag is, so I am not sure who exactly it is I would supposedly be posing for anyway!

 

If you used an original body, rather than copying the Jaguar, you would get the feel of driving the thing without the poseur factor.

 

So you know anybody that has a few extra original C-type bodies laying around that they don't need? Must be willing to sell for a reasonable price.

What to do for the chassis/engine?

 

Perhaps there is something to this replica driving experience thing. Without it one would never know how "alive" one feels when they are passed by their own tire!

 

I want a Countach but I know I may never have the extra cash to buy one. I'm ok in knowing that I may never afford to have one. Even buying a cheaper exact replica (if one existed) is not an option as I still would never have owned or driven a real one.

 

Proteus in the uk makes a very nice c type aluminum body, you use mk2 mechanicals and all the hard bits like wide angle ct yep heads are available.