The Massa Sucks Thread *OF COURSE THERE ARE SPOILERS*

Odd post considering the best driver on the grid drives for them.

 

Yeah, but every good driver knows they will always be Alonso's stooge no matter how good they are. They will never ever receive Alonso's level of care, and that's just a fact as Alonso ran with more upgrades over the weekend. It's going to take a driver who is ok with never being given a shot to win a WDC to go. And when Alonso retires, that #2 is going to have to be ok with being second to probably Vettel or whoever, unless for some strange reason no one top wants in with Ferrari any more because of their unequal treatment. I love Ferrari, but I also can't stand them because of stuff like this. Call it a bipolar relationship.

 

Isn't it the same at RB?
Seb is their number one and he at least makes no bones about it.
As long as a team values aWDC over a WCC having a clear número uno makes sense.

 

Again, being #2 at Ferrari is not a bad gig. Race for the most famous team ever, bank a very handsome salary, and pad your trophy cabinet with podiums and the occasional win. Drivers would kill for that opportunity...do you really think Hulkenburg wouldn't ditch scrapping for 10th place in a Sauber to drive a Ferrari and fight for podiums? Or that Bianchi wouldn't kick Marussia to the curb for the opportunity?

Lots of people on here really underestimate the allure of driving for the Scuderia - strange considering it's a Ferrari site. I'd bet that any of the drivers on the list I posted would jump at the chance. Massa to Sauber for Hulkenburg in a straight swap. Sounds good to me. Or put Koba in the car...he's already been getting acclimated with Maranello. I'm just ready for a new face, Massa has had a great run with the team, but it should have been over 3 seasons ago.

+1, although I disagree that Seb "makes no bones about it." Red Bull pompously declared for years that they let their drivers race and frequently looked down on Ferrari for employing team orders. No one with a brain believed that, which made it exponentially more hilarious when Malaysia happened and they had a metric ton of egg on their face.

 

You could be right. I see RB as taking a more broad approach by shopping Kimi though, he would occasionally if not regularly give Seb a real run. Ferrari would never acquire a driver of such caliber against Alonso. They want someone good with experience, but not too good. Just 'safe'.

 

I like Massa but he PI$$ED me off passing Iceman yesterday. ARGH!

 

That's two extremely lackluster weekends in a row for Raikkonen. If Alonso had two weeks in a row like that people on this forum would be losing it.

 

Actions speak louder than words.
Seb has not only staked ot the number one seat he's made it clear that pit instructions are "advisory in nature".

 

Hell, even back in 2010 it was quite obvious Seb was the #1, even when Webber had been giving him trouble all year. Remember "wing gate" at Silverstone?

 

Indeed. It only gets more obvious as the wins rack up.

 

The best pairing in recent years IMO was Button and Ham at Mclaren, finishing Ham 190 Button 188 in points in 2012.

 

True.

But they finished third in the WCC.
Not that a WDC was ever in the cards no matter what driver might have been favored.

 

The thing I never understand with the Massa supporters is how they can be happy with this guy?

He hasn't delivered for the past four years yet they are content with having him in that seat.

What is it about Massa that lulls them into such happiness?

The patience with Rubens and Irvine was running a lot shorter.

 

2nd best. you really think Alonso is better than seb? he is 25 and look at his win ratio to races driven in. More WDC than Alonso. That being said Ferrari needs to change their protocal and get seb and Alonso in the same car. Ferrari strategy right now isn't working with driver 1 and 2 so they have to think about changing. and I think redbull doesn't run 1 2. I think seb is better than weber but we all saw red bull tell seb to stand down to weber and seb acted like a di#k and passed him.

And how happy would we all be to see Seb Alonso line up. People would be going crazy. And we would be 100% getting the WDC and constructor.

And I think the Ferrari this year is right on par with the RB as far as the car goes. the car is great. it's just getting overshadowed by massa's demo derby driving.

I'm not saying it will be easy to get seb but that's what they want and they can pull it off.

 

Alonso is absolutely the best driver on the grid. Alonso has performed late 90s Schumacher level of magic with these recent Ferrari's. Vettel has had a magic carpet to ride the past few years, there can be absolutely no question of Alonso's superiority considering the work he has done with inferior machinery. Webber has been very sloppy these past couple years with only occasional flashes of brilliance. A few years ago Webber was always really clean, but not lately. And I am not a particularly big Alonso fan, I just have to give credit where it's due. Alonso has fought bloody knuckled for what has come easily to Seb in a Newey car. If you think about it, the drivers who have won WDC in Newey cars are not drivers that stick with us as 'the best ever' level of drivers other than Prost.

Ferrari is unfortunately not on par with the Red Bull. F138 is somewhat on par with race pace only, but even then they are good couple tenths behind when both drivers are able to push.




And btw, if this is the Phil Ivey I think it is then we met some 6-7 years ago in Las Vegas. And no, I don't play. We just chatted for a while.

 

I wish I was that phil ivey. and also wish I had his 100 Million plus and title of best poker player in the world.

 

Well that's what the real Phil WOULD say.

 

bah, I had no idea he was that good. We just chatted for an evening, about what I cannot recall now. I recall Mia Hamm and her friends were at the table next to us though so my eyes were primarily diverted elsewhere too haha

 

Would have been higher except both got burned by the problems the car had last year.

 

Massa did well today... and once again proves that his inconsistency is a big problem for the team. Imagine what he could have done to get points if he qualified better.

 

Wasn't if Fisichella who filled in for Massa after his crash knowing full well it might end his career? Which it basically did.

 

This is an old-hat conversation, but yes, I do.

Adrian Newey.

 

+ millions


Adrian's title winning drivers:

Mansell
Alain Prost
Damon Hill
Jacques Villeneuve
Mika Hakkinen

Only Prost sits with me as one of the greats in that group, and even that title is a bit unfair considering the drivers on the field and how insane that Williams was during that era! None of the others are even Prost's level IMO.

So, Newey Newey Newey

 

Ferrari is looking for the next best option. When they have determined a better option exists, they will make a move.

The problem you know is better than the problem you don't.

 

Prescription for stasis.

With the benefit of hindsight anyone here think that replacing Phil last year, or earlier, would have been a mistake?