Red Bull DRS open widely?

This. Happened several times to the front runners. IIRC the measuring spot and the actual DRS zone are quite a distance away from each other in Canada.

 

Did you notice where on the course the cars were at the time?

I understand DRS can be deployed depending on a number of conditions, one of which is that the cars be in a designated DRS zone. I believe there are 2 such zones in Montréal, between turns 11 and 13, 13 and 1. AFAIK, there is no restriction on which car the driver is overtaking.

Another rule that may apply to your observations is whether the Red Bull cars were within 1 second of the car being overtaken.

 

They were running very little wing in Canada to begin with, so the wings look much smaller/more "open" compared to higher downforce tracks.

But yes if you are within 1sec of any car ahead you are then able to employ DRS through both zones, even if you have already passed.

An algorithm could probably be setup to make DRS enabled only when passing for position, but it would be unnecessarily complex IMO. Further, DRS further facilitates passes on backmarkers with less dependence on having the backmarker observe a blue flag or otherwise have to move off of the racing line.

 

I think you mean at turn 14 (before the Wall of Champions). Here's the CGP course map from the official F1 website.

So you're saying Vettel was just coming out of the 2nd DRS zone and the backmarker was way behind him at turn 14. I believe DRS is deactivated when he brakes so Vettel probably just took full advantage of the DRS zone after overtaking the Caterham, which is again, probably legal.

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Well, you can argue that point but then anyone can apply the rule so it is still fair. IMO, it actually makes the racing more interesting because the faster car can time and pick its overtaking maneuver to use DRS to best advantage.

Yes, you'll have to see if he just passed someone after turn 12 and I don't think going to the pits makes any difference on the rule. If he didn't overtake anyone, you'd be right and his DRS should not have been open.

 

Applying rules of fairness to an abomination like DRS is pointless.

 

Go back and look at the replay. I don't have a full understanding of the rules but Vettel clearly opens the DRS on the last lap. There is clearly no other driver in front of him and he opens the DRS on several occasions before crossing the finish line. I thought I saw this in Monaco as well. I thought the DRS activation was only allowed if the driver in front is within one second. Can someone better explain the rules or is "someone" getting away with something?

 

Although I think the Red Bull DRS usage was legitimate, (it would have been noticed by other teams) I think that the Newey brain trust is the kind of group that would figure out a legal way to slow the cars (KERS?) without brakes and leave the DRS open.

 

I'll try.....

They had a single DRS detection point, followed by two separate activation zones. If you're within one second of another car (doesn't matter who) at the detection point you can deploy your DRS in those two zones, even if you've already passed the guy before even reaching the activation zone.

If you recall, Fred in particular used this to his advantage a few times over the past few races; He'd come up behind a backmarker and sit up his pipes until he reached the detection point (blue flags were waving). He then made the pass and could deploy with impunity.

HTH,
Cheers,
Ian
PS - the track map on Bernie's site is wrong! It only shows last years single zone!.....

 

I could have sworn Matchette mentioned this during the race?

 

Welcome back.
We were concerned as to your safety.

 

Went back and watched the race again to confirm what I saw. If nothing else just to watch a great race again. Coverage showed very little of Vettel but on laps 52 and 70 he clearly uses the DRS with no one in front of him as he enters the DRS Activation Zone. What I can't see is where he is in relation to the cars as he enters the DRS Detection Zone. Coverage shows Marussia and Caterham closely following as he enters the Activation Zone. I can only assume he passed them between zones. I just didn't realize the detection zone was so far before the activation zone. I sure what he did was legal as a lot of people with a better understanding of F1 than I have would have caught this.

I thought I figured out where all that extra speed was coming from. Must be something else.

I love the DRS system as it makes for great racing. I just wish they would tighten it up a little to be used for passing only.
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Glad you enjoyed it! Many here thought it sucked of course - Any time someone leads from start to finish it sucks.....

Being accurate, there is no "detection zone" - There's a "DRS detection point" - in Montreal between turns 9 & 10. It you're within a second of the guy ahead at that point, you're free to open it in either or both of the subsequent activation zones.

This whole mess varies from track to track; Most just have one DP & one AZ. Some have 2 DP's and two AZ's. All depends on the layout, and Charlie is still trying to improve how it works.

Cheers,
Ian
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Noticed Vettel, Weber, Hamilton and Alonso all using DRS at Canada when there
no other car in front of them on numerous occasions during the race.

Kept waiting for commentators Diffey, Hobbs or Matchett to catch it but they never
did, or if they did, the never mentioned it.

What is the penalty for using DRS in in a way not designated by the rules?

BHW

 

Go watch Spa last year and the battle between Kimi and Schumacher. You'll get a detail commentary of why and see clear cut where the zones are and how they work.

Its pretty much already been gone over, but people are still asking.

There is a point on the track, where if you are less than 1 second behind the car in front, you may use the DRS at the next zone available. It doesn't matter what the positions are. So if you get overtaken just before the detection zone, and are thus "behind" re-overtake before the activation zone, you can run in front of the guy you're racing with and activate DRS! I'm pretty sure this happened at Spa last year.

To open DRS, you don't have to have a car in sight in the DRS activation zone - just the detection zone. So, IF a back marker is within 1s at detection zone, but spins off the track, you can still use DRS even though he's two turns behind and stopped.

 

Thanks everyone for the input. I have a better understanding now. Just when you think you have it all figured out. Bring on Silverstone, I'm ready now.

"Kept waiting for commentators Diffey, Hobbs or Matchett to catch it but they never
did, or if they did, the never mentioned it."

One of them did mention something about this last week. I just didn't understand it as clearly. All this adds more the the DRS strategy. Sneak up on a lap guy at the Detection Point and use him.

 

+1

Except I wouldn't say anyone can "sneak up" on anyone.

However, it's definitely worth staying behind a backmarker until thru the DP - In this specific example, the blues towels will be waving and he's almost certain to let him thru entering turn 10 - Then give it the beans all the way to turn one. [With the break thru the chicane (13 & 14) of course.]

I'd need to check the other circuit layouts, but seems to me Charlie is learning a lot about to how make this work without it becoming the dreaded "back & forth" we all feared so much. That simply hasn't happened..... It may be an abomination to some (), but it has definitely gone some way to eliminate the processions we all remember so fondly.

Cheers,
Ian

 

Guess what I think.