so the reverse shaft is out? and the mainshaft also? this forum here is sooo great often others also helped me here with informations. so thanks to all here
HOOORAY!!! IT'S ALL APART! Nice cleaned up gearbox ready to go back together....slowly, I'm sure. Here's a pic of the culprit in question (The pinion shim) It is 2.37mm There are 2 smaller available from Ferrari, I will buy them both. Notice that this one has a notch. I don't think I'll be able to find THAT at any generic diff shop. A pic of the RG idler (The last brain fart) And a few nice pics of the clean gearbox and the guts. They're still dirty and cleaning and inspection is going to take a looooong time. So nice to have the WSM. Without it I wouldn't even try this. It's like having a 1000 piece puzzle and all the pieces are the same shape and color. The WSM is like having a cheat sheet. BUT you must disassemble before it all makes sense. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Ferrari part numbers 104726 and 104727. Pinion shims. Trutlands does not have. I can find in Europe for cheap. About $13 Anybody know where to source these in USA?
I've stayed out of this thread being one of the lucky ones when replacing my crown gear carrier with a one piece one. It was a drop in. I have milling and surface grinding capabilities in my home machine shop. So, if after all the crap you've be through and still need a shim ground down a few thou let me know and I'll assist. Qwazi, you epitomize those of us who love our TR's and aren't afraid to dive in when necessary.
Thanks Marty. I will keep it in mind. Nice to know I have backing. I've located 1 of the shims but I don't know if I'm going to need a 2.2mm or a 2.1mm until I test it. So, hopefully I'll find the other one on Monday. Sure would be nice if there was a "Ferrari of Maui" but I guess I'm the guy who has to wear that hat for now. I'm a firm believer in, no guts no glory! Aloha...
good that you are so far that all is out. so now you see it was not magic to do this job but as I have written before: without WSM and PC you may not start reassembling. I think a 2.15 mm shim would be ok? but this you may test by yourself. so may be you try to adjust several times until all matches. nice job for a rainy day. may be you can find such shims without the notch in a truck repair shop? this notch you could make by yourself then later. because this notch is only for the bearing from the mainshaft will not contact this shim. so for testing and adjustung you don´t need this special shim with notch because to do this job the main shaft may stay outside. but first of all now I would check again the bias of the tapered roller bearings of the diff. if this is adjusted correctly you may take out the complete diff again and adjust the bias of the bearings for the pinion shaft. and only then you may try to adjust the pattern CP. because when you then remove shims from one side you also have to add the same thickness of shims on the other side to have still the same bias I don´t know if bias is the right word for this?? my translator tells me so. would be good if someone could agree or disagree please. could you please tell if the mainshaft was going out to the front or to the rear?
Romano, In my opinion I believe what you mean by bias is bearing pre-load. backlash would be the rock between the crown wheel and pinion. Ago
ok, I think so too. when I translate the bearing pre-load into german it makes sence what the translator says. I german you will never say so as the translator. when I translate the german word "vorspannung" into english it says then bias, when I try to translate this bias back into german it also says bias. strange ! when I translate backlash it says like "repulsion" at a weapon. bachlash in this sence here now means a little bit play between CP and crown. also the word "rock" I wonder: rock is like a large stone? so the technical english is not so easy to understand because the translators are only for normal use, not for technical use but thank you very much for description. now I know a little more
Romano, your English is awesome. Keep it up. I enjoy trying to figure out what you're saying. I usually only have to read it twice to figure it out But it's really valuable. I greatly appreciate your willingness to try and communicate to me in a foreign language. It means a lot to me. I don't know where I'd be without you! Yes bias=preload
After much inspection I realized what the notch was for and I'm going to try and find it locally. After removing the RG idler the mainshaft was able to move, no problem. I think I ended up taking it out the back but....I can't remember....brain fart. When I put it back together it can only go in one way. I'll make a mental note at that point. Curious, what does "brain fart" translate to in German?
lol ! ! ! you just did this job and can not remember if the shaft come sout fornt or back so I think it is ok for me that I can not remeber also because it is longer ago I dd this job. even not the first time. what please is RG idler ? reverse gear idler?? I would say it is more a reverse gear shaft you removed first, not an idler? this means in german: the translator says: Gehirn Furz, so this means something like brainstorming or an unusual idea. but I know what you try to say
thank you for this statement but why is my english awesome?? what is so strange ? english is not my homelanguage but I think I can communicate in english not so bad. but this technical english sometimes is very strange to me , because until now I have not found a good translator. that is why I sometimes ask, may be for most of you with english as homelanguage silly questions? sorry for this. but better to ask than not knowing exactly where to talk about you would be also there where you are just now: in maui !
under awesome I understood unusual, so strange. but thanks for the compliment how is it going on now with the diff? make some picctures of all what you do. may be next time you could help another and show then how all works
Dear TR owners, Here is a piece of advice I'd like to share - FWIW. The pic below shows the amount of metalic debris I washed out of just first the item I chose to wash. It was a synco and it wasn't the worst piece. In this pic no other parts have been washed yet. I was SHOCKED at how much metalic debris there was. In fact, after washing all the gearbox parts, there was a huge amount of debris. Keep in mind when my diff blew, I stopped immediately, refilled the gear box with oil and tried to drive home before it all ran out. That was about a mile, maybe a little more. That was 3 years ago. If you want to proactively replace your diff, you are much wiser than me. If you wait until it explodes, I highly suggest you don't try and just replace the broken parts. You'll be asking for much more trouble down the road. With that much metal floating around in the gearbox, every part would eventually show some sign of damage. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I've said it before and I'll say it again. The design of this car blows me away every time I work on it. The beautiful simplicity of this gearbox and diff is just fantastic. I can now assemble and disassemble both layshaft and mainshaft with my eye's closed. Don't let the looks of it intimidate you. Take it apart and it all makes perfect sense. Here they are, all cleaned up and assembled with the exception of the items that must be pressed on. Assembling these took me about 5 minutes. Have I said I love my car lately? She is my b*tch and I love her. We get more intimate every day. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Romano, You are correct, Rock is the wrong English word for backlash. play is a better word. English is my only language, but people say it is one of the hardest languages to learn if you didn't grow up with it. The beautiful simplicity of this gearbox and diff is just fantastic. I can now assemble and disassemble both layshaft and mainshaft with my eye's closed. Quazi,manual gearboxes are really simple and very similar. Constant mesh is the main transmission. Even though I never had my TR box apart, I had enough gearboxes apart: motorcycle ,car , truck, Hewland etc. they are basically all do the same thing. Ago
Hmmm...this isn't good. Not as bad as Mel's but....hmmmm It is my first gear. Seems to be another common TR flaw. Image Unavailable, Please Login
in my post 145 I thaught already that the main shaft gets out to the front, but could not remember right. now I know so not too old to remember the first gear looks not so bad. I put in again other gears looking worse. after my shaft was broken I only drained the oil from the primary gear box and I was surprised how much metallic debris came out. very small pieces ( more dust than pieces ) in yellow, so parts of the synchroniser rings. but I think that is nearly normal because at other oilchanges on TR gearboxes I had seen the same. first time I have seen I thaught to check exactly, but for this the gearbox has to go out and so on. so I told the owner to have a look at if he will have some day problems with shifting. that is now about 15 years and about 70000 ago, and still ok. when you now have all washed you just may check the synchroniser rings wear and play ( WSM page E 20 ). also please check the play between the shifting forks and the sliding sleeves ( E 16 + E 17 ). also I would replace all bearings. but don´t buy them at a F dealer. some are hard to get even it is standing SKF on. david: you are right, all manual gearboxes are nearly the same and if you think exactly over how they work it is not a magic to rebuilt a gearbox.
If I am not mistaken, Philwozza has these special bearings in stock ... I would exchange the first gear set if I was able to get one set ... THAT's exactly the place where they may breake ...
Romano says it's not so bad, Mel says replace it....what to do.... Most likely will keep it because it doesn't look terrible and the replacement cost is in the stratosphere. Besides, I've always been told to replace gears in sets. Considering that this one gear is $600 and the mating gear...well let me go look that up...HOLY HARDENDED STEEL BATMAN! They want somewhere between $4000 to over $7000. Forget it. I'm using it.
Well maybe the day you tear down a TR gearbox and diff you'll change your mind. Yes, the concept is the same in all. But I've worked on enough to know that this is somewhat special. Simple, yes but the fact that they were able to build such a nice gearbox AND diff in such a small space is really cool. Considering the design is 30 years old, I'm sure the newer F stuff is even better but I don't have that kind of scratch...yet. Also, 30 years ago I would have thought this was built by aliens I know this car very well and in the 13 years I've owned it, I've said these words over and over. "what a brilliant design". Of course, I've also said, "what a terrible application of a brilliant design".
No, these pieces were large. Quite a few from the broken LHS cover. Not just dust particles. CHUNKS! Most of the pieces from the diff were caught by the magnets but because these are not steel, they moved around in the oil.
