David Piper restores the Talacrest P4

Care to guess just how much original P4 the new owner would be getting for their money Jim?

 

As 0858's Ferrari Technical Data Sheets clearly show not much.

Tipo 603C/350 Can Am Chassis
Tipo 603C/350 Can Am Engine
Tipo 603C/350 Can Am Suspension set up Suspension springs and disk brakes
Tipo 603/350 Can Am Fuel tanks
Tipo 603/350 Can Am body work

 

Mutton dressed as Lamb.

 

Piper as we see from his 917 lawsuit is not a hobbyist or enthusiast. Its all about the benjamins for him. I guess he needs the money and is a high end used car salesman.

Funny thing is thta there is still prpobably going to be more original car here than many other so called historics.

Pity though that a period origional pice is being hacked to bits.

Really would we not be better of encouraging and accepting toolrrom recreations, that way vanity can be appeased, and/or cars driven in full anger(as intended) without ruining the last surving period pieces.

 

That is pretty much rubbish about David Piper. Yes he is a car dealer and always has been. But he is far more than that and the Hales episode was certainly not a money making exercise. I talked to David about it and if Hales had been sensible it would have been easily settled.

David is not the primary player in this. He has been contracted to do a job and is doing it. he doesn't own the car. What he thinks about the whole thing I have no idea and without talking to him I doubt anyone else does either.

 

Maybe he needs the money now, or he is old and crazy, who knows.
I know if I lend my car to someone for a magazine writeup or just to use, if something happens its my ticky. That is the sportsmanlike and gentlemanly way to be, at this level in theory the people are sportsman. I mention Hales because it shows pipers attitude.

As to whether this will sell for a lot of $$$. I woudl say for sure. Look at the GT40 that had its roof cut off and then burned tot he ground, mracu;lously to arise from the ashes decades later. What was bout herer was a data plate and acess to historic events. The same will be with this P$ it will have acess to all the best events.

We are not dealing with conniseurs here, or people who even necessarily care about cars, we are dealing with ego and a desire to have Entre. In any event this will sell and be accepted.

The solution is santioned recreations, that way origional period pices no matter what they are dont need to be lost through "restoration"

 

Sorry

You are totally wrong.

You should go and read the whole stuff and understand what actually happened rather than relying on half-arsed comments by the uninformed

F

 

Comeon Jim,and Ferrari never changed or reissued build sheets or chassis stamps?0239/0352/1292;0320/0322;0424/0526;0446/0556;0277/0283; etc etc. It's been said over and over that underneath that Can Am body was still fundamentally all P4. Even the engine was one of the original P4s enlarged. What happened over the next couple of years will never be known but who cares. 0858P4 was given the chassis title, not number,of 603/350 Can Am on paper only to satisfy the buyer and the seller. tongascrew

 

1292 should be 0292. tongascrew

 

This thread is getting very boring. I put my P files back into the vault. Bye bye.

 

Yeah I guess I only read what was avaialable in the various motoring press journals, including Octane where the situation occuerd. Plus of course a thread here.
I cant say I read the court papers, but from what i have read, there is not a sympatehtic word for piper, except of course from you.

 

You realise how arcane all this data plate mumbo jumbo sounds to an outsider. Cars are mechanical objects built to a blueprint, you can make a new one exactly the same, esp of an old ferrari which was a cottage industry product.
Then the old ones can be saved.
As to whether this car is being butchered. The historical object is being ruined, that what will emerge will be more beautiful and more desireable is not the point.
If I turned the breadvan into a 250swb would that be any different. We are losing aperiod built piece and gaining an atheticaly pleasing bitsa, something someoen with a lot of $$$ might do, but I cant imagine a true collector doing it.

 

George you really need to face reality.

The Ferrari Technical Data sheets clearly reflect what Ferrari thought 350 Can Am was when they built her and applied for homolagation to race her in the Can Am series and the typo of the parts therein are not P4 period.

Ferrari is and has been crystal clear that they believe 0858 today is a 350 Can Am and that they will NOT Classiche 0858 as a P4 no matter what is done to her Period.

Your statement: "Even the engine was one of the original P4s enlarged" is not true.

The engine currently in 350 Can Am 0858 of which there is another engine with the exact same serial number in David's "P4" Replica "0900" which also is a serial number claimed by a 312PB is not P4 nor has it ever been in a P4 EVEN IN AN "UNENLARGED" form and this fact has been confirmed by Ferrari.

Your statement: "0858P4 was given the chassis title, not number,of 603/350 Can Am on paper only to satisfy the buyer and the seller." is not true. When 350 Can Am 0858 was offered for sale at the Factory Auction before the Auction began the Auctioneer very clearly stated that the catalog that identified 0858 as a P4 WAS NOT CORRECT and the the car being offered was "350 Can Am Chassis # 0858" because legally that is exactly what this car is PERIOD.

 

True.

 

True.

 

You at Le Mans?

 

Will anyone perform a mercy killing on this thread?

It contains interesting and valuable observations, some axe grinding, the inevitable rah-rah's and a few ill judged comments on individuals, with the same basic facts and positions repeated again and again.

Let's move on guys until this car is eventually sold, when we can all suck our teeth or enjoy a wry grin. There is a lot to say about all the P cars and it would be nice to learn more about some of them from knowledgeable contributors.

 

Well Said !!!!!!!

 

Mate I cannot agree with this.

Ferrari made 0858 first as a P4 yes, but then they decided to make it into a Can Am ... there is no difference if they had started with steel off the shelves.

Therefore when 0858 rolled out of the Ferrari factory it rolled out as a 100% original condition Can Am car. You can restore it to it's P4 form if you want, but to do so means removing 100% genuine and original Ferrari work!

To say otherwise implies that every car Ferrari built are not original and should be returned to raw steel stock as that was the steel's original form IMO
Pete

 

It all depends on how you interpret the word original. If you take it to mean genuine and authentic in the sense that 0858 Can Am car was a genuine and authentic Ferrari Can Am car then you are right, as the word original can be interpreted as such. However, the word original can also be interpreted as not being derived from something else and in that sense the 0858 Can Am car is not original and was only original as a P4.

 

Really?

You have to torture logic to get there.

 

I'm unsubscribing ... the debate on this thread, while pointless as we cannot stop the destruction of this ORIGINAL (as it last left the factory) Ferrari, is just stupid ...

Pete

 

Yes

 

Is Tracy OK? Will his car start?

 

Ditto and it doesn't depend on Bill Clinton BS like "It depends what your definition of 'is' is."

Finish your Alfa!!!!!!