David Piper restores the Talacrest P4

+1
What bothers me is the overuse of the word "Glory" in all his posts. Dead givaway of blind devotion.

 

I think I'm beginning to understand the gap(s) in your logic.

 

Without cold, hard, documented facts, to base this discussion on, one man`s argument is as valued as anothers, whether for or against the works going on.

I don`t recall seeing a post, factually documenting, in writing, that Ferrari have stated they will not accept 0858 in the original P4 format (if I have missed this, can you please indicate the post number?)

Also, whilst the bodywork may be a replica, how are we sure that other parts being used are `replica` P4 parts? who knows for sure, what was in the container load of spares; sold with 0858 by Ferrari?

Who knows what spares David Piper collected along the way? You look at the photographs of his garden, and there appears to be all sorts of stuff, including P series front clips, who knows what else?

The only fact we seem to have, I stand to be corrected here, is that 0858 originally stated life as a P4, and was transformed by someone, at Ferrari`s instruction, (was it the actual Ferrari factory? or a sub contractor?) to create the Can Am.

Regarding originality, I understand the Can Am went through a total restoration in 1997, so just how much of this Can Am was `original` Ferrari?

I`ve said previously, I am not biased one way or the other, but I believe until the facts come to light, and can be verified, the argument has to remain balanced, irrespective of personal opinions.

Regards

 

Yes for one simple reason, what is being done is the destruction of an intract surviving period piece which is irreplaceable. Had it been crashed and its body motor etc destroyed then rebuilding it into whatever with dtat plate justification is very different.

I do agree with you ythat most so called historic cars are recreations or replicas with a data plate, so why condone destroyog something real into a near recreation with data plate.. The shame here is this one is a real undestroyed period piece, surely that has greater value, if not sadly greater $$$ value.

Remember when in the USA all great cars lost ther identily through "restoration" and then lo and Behold some taste crept in and we had a preservation class, of course by then many a great period piece had been lost to "restoration". The same applies here, this car has greater value if not greater $$$ value as it survived from period intact, that really is the point.

 

Do you think any P3 is driven on the road in anger? If any of these cars were to be driven hard it would be on track. So from a useability perspoective one is as good as the other, they are motive showpieces. And I cant remember ever hearing of or seeing a p3 recently being driven in anger on the street or track.

Anyway why hack a period piece to bits, if you really must have a P4 to drive at speed or park in the driveway spend $1mill or less and get a tool room copy.

I do agree that a large proportion of historic racers are really just recreations with a period data plate for provenance, the prototypical GWs axe. Surely we should just accept and in fact sanction recreations built to the proper standard, it would improve the racing and allow for proper preservation of period pieces for posterity.

What we have now in many cases is a farce of recreations with data plates in order to drive value higher and or be accepted to events, and this drives nonsensical behaviour like destroying a period pice to create a near bitsa of something theoreticaly more desireable if it existed verified by a data plate. Someday maturity will creep in and we will lament the loss of period pieces, you can recreate a car and or even restore one. by defintion you cant recreate a surviving period piece.

 

Agreed. 100%

 

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/142391504-post28.html

 

The end result will be glorious. And someone will buy it. Will we then start a thread in order to chastise the new owner?

 

Pitchforks and torches all around.

 

Lets wait and see how the final product comes out. Just remember if dropped those tools can come back to hunt you down. tongascrew

 

I agree. The restoration/rebuild of 0846 is as far as I can tell a superb job, as expertly done as is humanly possible. I have file of close to 300 pages on this car.All I am saying is that the Piper/Talacrest effort appears to be on the same track. I anticipate they have the same quality of finished product. Let's hope it is a photo finish. tongascrew

 

All true.And as a P3/4, which was closer to a P4, 0846 had but one real success at Daytona in 9 dnfs.All the more reason to rebuild it to as close to it's P4 configuration as possible. The same I believe is and should be the case for 0858. Return it as near as possible to its most successful, its best looking its most saleable, its most famous format etc. And maybe above all, the owner can drive it on the road.If I were him I would enter it in few prestigious shows and spend the rest of the time driving it around Italy.Jim is right, the Targa Florio is a much more pleasant event than the M.M. However until you get away from the official events and get out on your own where you can hang things, that's where the fun really begins. I have done this a number of times, granted not in a P4.There are really no words to describe it. Want to know more. E-mail me at tongascrew@aol,com tongascrew

 

Irony and humor George.
No matter what else, on one level at least, its just a car.

 

No you can't strictly speaking. Jim Glickenhaus and many others have made commendable efforts to do so and should be congratulated for all they have done. I only hope the Piper/Talacrest effort lies up to the same standards, tongascrew

 

I don't know.I owned a Ferrari in Italy for four years and there were plenty of roads with lots of excelent anger potential. I can testify, my wife is a very brave person. Granted there aren't many where I live. but they are out there. If you want a description of what to look for just let me know.tongascrew

 

I never made any attempt to discuss where and how these rebuilds/recreation bodies were done.You will have to do your own homework on this.. I most cases this is not openly discussed in any signifigant detail.I am sure English wheel equipment was used in many jobs that were done, some in the UK and others in any number of other countries.tongascrew.

 

Listen to the interview with D P at Talacrest. Piper clearly states that E F created the s/n 900 for D P.at the time the P series parts were transferred to Piper. There seems to be some question about the number of 900 chassis that were to be created Three total were built and given s/ns 900/901/902 or 900a/900b/900c. Sorry about the confusion over "replica". Everyone seems to have their own definition.What ever it means it's not original. What makes it not original is ???? tongascrew

 

I have around 300 pages of research on 0858.Statements by me are entirely made from information derived from these pages which are all copies of published documents.If you wish to question anything please site chapter and verse and I will be more than happy to discuss it with you. tongascrew

 

The End.

 

Appropriate lyrics for the subject of this thread.

This is the end
Beautiful friend
This is the end
My only friend, the end
Of our elaborate plans, the end
Of everything that stands, the end
No safety or surprise, the end
I'll never look into your eyes...again
Can you picture what will be
So limitless and free
Desperately in need...of some...stranger's hand
In a...desperate land
Lost in a Roman...wilderness of pain
And all the children are insane
All the children are insane
Waiting for the summer rain, yeah
There's danger on the edge of town
Ride the King's highway, baby
Weird scenes inside the gold mine
Ride the highway west, baby
Ride the snake, ride the snake
To the lake, the ancient lake, baby
The snake is long, seven miles
Ride the snake...he's old, and his skin is cold
The west is the best
The west is the best
Get here, and we'll do the rest
The blue bus is callin' us
The blue bus is callin' us
Driver, where you taken' us
The killer awoke before dawn, he put his boots on
He took a face from the ancient gallery
And he walked on down the hall
He went into the room where his sister lived, and...then he
Paid a visit to his brother, and then he
He walked on down the hall, and
And he came to a door...and he looked inside
Father, yes son, I want to kill you
Mother...I want to...WAAAAAA
C'mon baby,--------- No "take a chance with us"
C'mon baby, take a chance with us
C'mon baby, take a chance with us
And meet me at the back of the blue bus
Doin' a blue rock
On a blue bus
Doin' a blue rock
C'mon, yeah
Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill
This is the end
Beautiful friend
This is the end
My only friend, the end
It hurts to set you free
But you'll never follow me
The end of laughter and soft lies
The end of nights we tried to die
This is the end

 

With what happened at Le Mans today in mind,... is this really worth 60+ pages? Go hug the ones you love.

 

I have read this several times.It flows along beautifully and is so full of ambiguities and symbols. I have difficulty with the meaning. Nothing new..Maybe we could start this with the blue bus and what it is the symbol of. In Italy it is the basic means of public transportation between towns and villages. I very much doubt the author has the same interpretation. Any ideas? Something to get us off the current battlefield. tongascew

 

off topic...the full 12min

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGmAmJFUvzM]The Doors-The End [FULL] - YouTube[/ame]



Urban Dictionary: blue bus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_End_(The_Doors_song)

 

It's about 0858


via rubber ducky