Installing my new Diff | Page 10 | FerrariChat

Installing my new Diff

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by qwazipsycho, May 17, 2013.

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  1. uzz32soarer

    uzz32soarer F1 Rookie

    Sep 9, 2006
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    Robert Hayden
    On the really thin ones, watch out for those rough edges as this can give you false readings on thickness.
     
  2. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    as robert have written, be carefull with the edges, not only on the very thin ones.

    but now you have a nice weekend job to do :)
     
  3. Gleggy

    Gleggy Formula 3

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    #228 Gleggy, Jun 28, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  4. ago car nut

    ago car nut F1 Veteran
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    A wire EDM does a nice job on shims also.



    Ago
     
  5. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    what is a wire EDM?
     
  6. Philwozza

    Philwozza Formula 3

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    Electro Discharge Machine ?


    P
     
  7. philvecc

    philvecc Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
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    Philip Vecchiarelli
    Nice looking shims.. beats hand cutting and filing.
    Related question.... anyone know the torque requirements on the bolts for the flywheel?
    Couldn't find it in the manual....
    Thanks.
     
  8. qwazipsycho

    qwazipsycho Formula 3

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    It's 63 ft. lbs. Don't hijack my thread brah! :) And yes, it's in the WSM under Group M Tightening Torques
     
  9. qwazipsycho

    qwazipsycho Formula 3

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    Hi Aussie!

    Yeah, I was asking the waterjet guy about that and he recommended a light sanding of all the shims before use to knock the burrs off. The thin ones will be tough to do without creasing them. Hopefully I won't really need anything that thin.
     
  10. philvecc

    philvecc Formula Junior

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    Thanks Scott. Appreciate it. Meanwhile... back to your thread.
     
  11. ozziindaus

    ozziindaus F1 Veteran

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    Yes it's a form of Electro Discharge Machine where a circulating live wire (very thin) is used to NC (Numerical Control) cut the material similar to a band saw. Commonly used to make extrusion tools, fine blanking tools and anything with a 2D geometry, provided the material is conductive. There are machines available that can actually cut a 3D profile.

    Laser is obviously another option but the heat may affect the thin stock. If I had to choose a method for this application, water jet would be the way to go. It's quick, precise and low temperature.
     
  12. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    thank you for explaining sam.
    in german it is called: erodiermaschine
     
  13. ago car nut

    ago car nut F1 Veteran
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    Wire EDM wont leave any rough edges. I made many parts with it before retiring. It will cut very thick and hard electrically conductive material. It is accurate to within .0002 in. .005mm. It is a moot point , unless you have access to one. Very expensive machine.



    Ago
     
  14. qwazipsycho

    qwazipsycho Formula 3

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    Help please.


    Does anybody have a shortcut to put a preload on the pinion bearings so I can check the diff setup?
     
  15. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    what you mean under shortcut? I check this preload with a spring scale ( horizontal spring ? )

    but you may adjust the preload for the pinion bearings separately to the preload of the diff bearings. one has nothing to do with the other
     
  16. qwazipsycho

    qwazipsycho Formula 3

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    I guess I didn't state that correctly.

    I am trying to install the pinion temporarily so I can check the ring and pinion mesh. It appears that the only way to install the pinion is to put all the gears back on so there is something holding the pinion in place. Otherwise, there is nothing to hold it and it can easily be moved out of position.
     
  17. ago car nut

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    Could you not get a piece of tubing to duplicate the gear stack up for trial assembly?
    Too bad we are not neighbors.


    Ago
     
  18. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    #243 turbo-joe, Jun 30, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    not really right scott

    just now you have a lot of bushings ( no. 20 tavola 33 ) from both shafts in the gearbox.
    so now you may meassure all the sizes ( red ) together and with those bushings you may go up to this size to about 0,5 mm. instead of the bushings you also may use a piece of steel pipe. but this has to be on both ends exact the same size. so you don´t have to put all the gears in. after you put then on the bearing no. 23 you take a secong steel pipe what will go on this bearing. the bearing no. 9 is not not needed to adjust the preload. when you adjusted the preload for the pinion bearings you may meassure the sizes between the first steel pipe and the bearing no. 19 or 23. before you had a space when you meassured right form about 0,5 mm. now after adjusting the preload you have less. so now you know exactly the size between the 2 bearings no. 19 and 23 what is needed for the right preload.

    so the preload now is adjusted

    next step is to have the right size for the cp. this you may try several times until it will match. but when you remove then on the pinion shaft shims or you reduce the thickness for example from shim no. 21 you also have to reduce the shim size on no. 8 with the same size to have still the same preload.

    for the adjusting the crown/diff it is other: this what you take away from one side you have to add on the other side to stay with the same preload.

    everything clear with my german translated to english :D
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  19. Gleggy

    Gleggy Formula 3

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    If you sandwich the shims between two pieces of sacrificial plates will give you a better finish, ask for it to be cut on 120 mesh garnet.
     
  20. qwazipsycho

    qwazipsycho Formula 3

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    #245 qwazipsycho, Jul 2, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Feels like baby steps. I'm finally to the re-assembly stage anyway.

    My last post was in regards to setting up the pinion without all the gears so I could measure it's depth. Although the manual says I can use a piece of pipe, I just don't have anything suitable. So my only solution is to reassemble it with the gears...over...and over...and over.

    My gearbox was perfect before this all started so I have to assume the only problem here is the pinion depth in relationship to the crown gear. I'm measuring how far I'm moving it and then adding that amount to the other shim on the shaft. Oh, by the way, I decided to have more shims cut for that "center" shim so I can just add to it instead of ordering from the F pimp and hoping I got the right size. Besides, they don't even have the right sizes 6.1,2,or 3mm are not available. I know this shim is splined or driven but what I'm adding to it isn't going to matter. See the pic of the small shims below.

    So now I've moved the shaft .5mm and although I see movement in the gear pattern, it's not enough. The pic below shows the drive side pattern and if you refer back to previous pics of the drive side, it was just a small pattern on the toe side that only covered about 20% of the tooth. This pattern is still toe side but it's now covering about 50% of the tooth. Much better...but...I want perfect.

    So the pinion shaft comes back out. It's a PITA to do it this way because I have to install all the gears. At least the mainshaft doesn't have to come out again.

    So I'm thinking about another .3-.5mm. That seems soooo excessive for Ferrari to put it together like this in the first place. OK, I'll stop whining about that and get back to work. Unfortunately for now, I have to go back to fixing computers because working on the car doesn't pay for the car.
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  21. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    thank you scott for updating.

    the pattern now looks much better than before. so you are on the right way to fix it perfectly. but I also wonder about this what F have done during installing :(
    just now I don´t want to change with you :) because of all the gears you always have to put in again and out.
     
  22. ago car nut

    ago car nut F1 Veteran
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    Scott,
    Does the outer tapered bearing race have to be pressed out of the case every time you try a different shim?


    Dave
     
  23. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    what you mean under "outside bearing"?
    so the bearing in the middle or at the back, so where the pinion is?
    the one in the middle ( no. 23 ) has to be pressed always, the other at the back ( no. 19 ) stays on the shaft.only the bushing no. 20 has to removed to change the shims. but this is easy
     
  24. qwazipsycho

    qwazipsycho Formula 3

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    Aloha Dave,

    I assume you're referring to the bearing at the head of the pinion shaft. No, it's a slip fit. In fact, all the bearing races are slip fit except for one end of the mainshaft. It's a small one and only requires a little tapping with a punch to get out.
     
  25. ago car nut

    ago car nut F1 Veteran
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    Thanks Scott,

    Keeping all this info for future use.


    Dave
     

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