Installing SRI Gold kit today - little help?

.....a little confused by the "request for data" here.

Exactly what kind of data would you like to see ? ---- Before and after attenuation / noise plots on individual signal carriers ? Before and after transmission rates ? Before and after bandwidth boundaries ? Or, what ?

There is such a thing, even in the Engineering world, (at least, so I am told) as qualitative data ---- meaning, a consistently observed improvement from before and after condition results ---- looks like there is quite a bit of that type of data available with this particular change (replacing connector pins) to me.

Some reliability / longevity comparison results would be nice to see ---- how well / long the OE stuff held up (which we sort of know with the age and mileage already on the cars) vs. how well / long the GCK performance holds up (which we will have to wait and see as the modified cars accumulate time and miles later). I hope that down the road, owners will report these results as well .

 

For those following the score with the OP:
P1115 02 Sensor Heater Circuit (Upstream Catalyst) (Bank 1, Sensor 1) Short to Ground
P1119 02 Sensor Heater Circuit (Upstream Catalyst) (Bank 2, Sensor 1) Short to Ground
P1448 Catalyst Bypass Flap Circuit Malfunction
P1449 Catalyst Temperature (Bank 2) Range/Performance
P1454 Catalyst Protection Active (Bank 2)
P0153 02 Sensor Circuit (Upstream Catalyst) (Bank 2. Sensor 1) Slow Response

Ketel, do you have a slow down light? The P1454 is concerning. I haven't had this one before, but I'm not sure I would do much "aggressive" driving until this is resolved. The others I have seen in my car and were resolved by first replacing the O2 sensors and second installing the gold connector kit. The P1448 and 1449 were resolved by cleaning the contacts on the CAT ECUs and vacuum solenoids.

Maybe when you have the P0153, your car is running open loop using default tuning and runs smoothly, but when you don't have the P0153, it is running closed-loop and idles more roughly due to other issues. I would think the P1115 and P1119 codes would cause open-loop as well, but maybe not since they are just heater related.

I have a program and a Bluetooth adapter (ElmScan 5: ScanTool.net LLC - Scan Tools, PC, iPhone, & Android based OBD-II (OBD2) Interfaces, OBD diagnostic software) for the ODBII port that allow me to monitor real time data on the car. It can clearly show O2 sensor issues among other things. It is definitely worth the investment for helping diagnose issues with these cars. See http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/348-355/201140-97-f355-spider-ecu-issue-smog-issue-4.html

- Tom

 

Hmmm, never had that problem. Make sure you're using the right slot in the crimping tool. If in doubt, check the part 1 of the video again. There are a lot of hills and valleys in the jaws of the tool, and I'm concerned you're not in the right one.

 

Getting back on fixing codes, if you are pulling the codes below, and the codes are correct, you have to get to the source, whether you are installing gold connectors or not. Unplug the O2 sensor and measure the resistance of the heater. Typically it should be between 5 and 6 ohms. (Correct me if it's different for an F car.) If it's zero (or less than 1 ohm) it's shot. This is the point I was originally tiring to make. All the gold in the world won't fix a bad sensor. A quick measurement will tell you whether the sensor is bad or that you should look elsewhere. That you no longer have the P0153 code may be because it just takes longer to detect it, or, if the heater circuits are truly shorted now it may not reappear. It does seem strange that you are seeing both side with the same code all of a sudden.

P1115 02 Sensor Heater Circuit (Upstream Catalyst) (Bank 1, Sensor 1) Short to Ground
P1119 02 Sensor Heater Circuit (Upstream Catalyst) (Bank 2, Sensor 1) Short to Ground


Dave, I am interested in why you say not to solder.

 

In THEORY you may have a perfect running example, at which point you would see absolutely no change or benefit what so ever. If we are to get into obscure discusions regarding minutia and theoritical problems with a given system and its components, then the debate must be treated the same on both sides or it amounts to nothing but blowing sunshine.... something I highly resent having done to me.

Search function has your answer, I do not. I am nothing but a mechanic and a system designer, I am not a saleman... never had any want to be one and I am not about to start now. I am quite often asked by those giving me feedback Why in the heck (!) I dont advertise some of the benefits that 97% of those that have installed the kit, realize. I do Not advertize these because it is 97%, not 100%. The Net is full of BS and I am sick of it, I have no intension of making grandious claims unless I can assure they are realized.

Results of an install depend on many things, namely the attention to detail of the person installing the kit And the condition of the car it is being put on. Neither of these variables are something I have any control of unless I am personally hands dirty on the car, hence my inability to predict results. This is a unique example of a system where the results are directly proportional to the effort and detail that went into the install.... simple as that.

In a number of instances to date I have offered to install the kit while I had an engine out for service, obviously easier and quicker to do at that time. In some of these instances the offer is declined because "My car runs perfect and I have never seen a CEL, there is no benefit to doing it". As an experiment, in a couple of these examples I disregarded the decline of the kit and did it before the engine went back in. To these folks I simply made the offer that if you dont feel any seat of the pants improvements, if you realize no benefit..... you owe nothing and have it with my compliments. The last example where I did this the owner called the shop once he crested a mountain pass...... "Send me a bill, what ever it is.... I now know I needed it!".

I have proven to myself that these cars were never correct when they rolled out the doors of the factory. I was working on these problems before the cars even hit the showroom floor. I am in firm belief I know why the headers were melting, why the cats were failing, why the liners were washing out... the CEL's..... the list is near endless. Currently having Thousands of hours of research and testing already invested in this project, doubling that investment to Prove to a few what everyone that has done the install can feel seat of the pants.... There are few things I feel I have perfected in my life BUT the ability to waste perfectly good time and money.... dont even try to compete, I AM the Champion!

The knowledge of this effort is only public because my local customers demanded it be made so. These cars declined in value because they got such a nasty reputation of being unreliable and hideously expensive to own. They got to a point where bubble gum fixes were justified... and that is just over the top on a Ferrari. My customers were really quite angry that I was allowing this decline to happen when it appeared I had a solution in hand for these issues. This is an example of just laying out the ground work for a vastly bigger effort proved so beneficial that the results simply couldnt be ignored. Beneficial, Yes, but Predictable? Only if I know exactly what ails the car at the current time and know your abilities, that is simple logic that any engineer can figure out prior to the question even being posed.

This winter major advancements were realized in results obtained when we designed and built our run in stand. This continues to improve on a daily basis and is one of the reasons I was not releasing it for so many years, I had not yet reached my end point and I dont feel it right to have folks bank rolling our research. The owners are the ones who felt the benefits, even with the early releases, were plenty good as they stood.... I did not. We now have 355's that can play at will with 360's, 348's playing where they never dared to before, TR's that now demand attention when the pedal is buried, all easily capable of over driving the stock suspension and brakes.... and they are all perfectly stock and fully emissions compliant but now with systems optimized to a level the design engineers drew up, not what the bean counters gave us.

"My car runs Perfect".... Sure it does, wanna bet? TWO owners Know what a Really good running car feels like, many know what a Very good car feels like, the rest are wishing and hoping... and you know the old saying about that. I state "Really good" because I know there is more yet.... but I have a day job that gets in the way of progress on the Evoluzioni Project (tm).... the reason the GCK was even designed.

 

I can do a long winded reply why your logic on the O2 sensor is both right and wrong but then we are debating minutia once again. I will stop at... your viewing this with blinders on, processing the O2 signal is a package deal. I am in the process of making our own design O2 sensors to fix a number of inherent problems with them. Who knows if they will ever see the market but I can assure you that what we now have is fault ridden.

Solder has two problems. The first being the flux contamination and the second being the making of a flexible connection into a rigid connection in a high vibration environment.... NO good comes from either.

 

Dave, its been a while since I heard you mention the SRI Evoluzioni Project, glad to hear its still in the works.

 

Alive, well and progressing at a snails pace because of interruptions from my day job. Just when we get started up again, Ferrari throws it a curve ball with New parts being supplied that wont stand the test of time. The high point there is I will have years of testing on two cars before it evolves beyond what it is now. This is one project that wont be released until the entire package is where I want it... I learned my lesson.

 

I am very interested in the next phase of 355 improvements you develop. If you need any more DIY beta testers for the next phase please consider contacting me about it. We only spoke a few times over email about about the GCK this past winter but I finished the "supremo" install in January and the car has been a beast since. Not a single negative after install, with many positives - power, idle, no more SDL, ect. The car ran great before the install.... or so I thought until after the install.

I have a 5.2 car with no cats.

 

I think a bad air temp sensor would keep the car in open-loop mode so the idle theory still stands.

 

Noted and on the list Steve. The 2.7's Used to rule the 355 performance chain, no longer. Now I have 2.7 owners demanding I bring those back up to the top of the heap... one day... maybe... I am not one to promote changing a models make up but now I am forced into looking closely at just that. The brakes and suspension simply cant keep up now...

 

Dave, do I have to remind you that I have always wanted my car to be an SRI Evoluzioni model You just tell me when and it will be on a truck heading your way

 

I'm affraid you are pushing a rope on both issues.

 

I dont know what was intended by that but... I speak on that subject with hands on experience, not theory or guesses.

 

Thanks Dave, very exciting stuff from a owners perspective. When you say the brakes and suspension can't keep up now are you implying that the performance improvements power/speed wise are dramatic enough to justify focusing on improving stopping and turning performance?

 

When we can get a car sideways in a light curve, at 5700 ft altitude, just by rolling the throttle on in 2nd gear... that generates giggles and an "Oh My....". I was told by the two that are testing this that a warning label should be put on the tach.... no I did not warm them first, just gave them the car to drive... and then got a tongue lashing.

This is a project I will be working with Rob on, he has what this package needs and his knowledge on the topic is undeniable.

 

Dave, it was a privilege to be a 5.2 beta tester and my car benefited a great deal from it, I want IN on this new project. I'll PM you!

 

For all those who are still skeptical / wanting for hard data on the value of using gold connectors..... allow me to fire this silver bullet ---- check that.... gold bullet...

If you are driving any US-market car made after about 1999, then your car already has gold connectors in it !!!

Specifically, the DOT & the NHTSA have mandated by code to the automobile manufacturers that the connectors for airbag (SIR) systems use gold-plated contacts / pins / sockets.

Now, why do you suppose that is......???

 

Sheesh! You don't have to look that far. If you go out to your garage and look at the TPS or the MAF connectors on your late model stock Ferrari the gold connectors are already there BUT Ferrari stopped there.

<<Now, why do you suppose that is......??? >>

 

Dear Ketel and JohnK,

Just buy the damn kits and either install them correctly yourself or have someone who is qualified to do it for you. I am the poster boy, the one, the crash test dummy, etc. etc. for this kit. After much blood, sweat, and tears (mostly from Dave, but me too) this upgrade was designed to make our cars reliable. I had Ferrari dealers and other very expensive "pro" shops spend lots of my money to no avail. I was told at one point don't worry about an occasional flicker or a slow down light or CEL. No problem. Well not quite...BIG PROBLEM. After spending all that time and money on god know's what I still had the aforementioned problems plus a faulty alterantor every two years, crappy idle that would kill the car at times that were not so convenient, 2 destoyed "Hyper-Flow" free flow cats, and finally a statement from the state of Colorado telling me they detected unburned hydrocarbons (fuel) as I passed a drive by emission station; and finally blinking SDLs that did not subside, so I got a dropped bank, and a dead car on the side of the road far from home.

Now, I've had it. The car was going to be sold so just get it running Dave. So I get it to Dave who before all of this had a gold kit for me but we were lax in getting around to installing it. But this time Dave was pissed and he told me he was going approach this systematically, as in: first and foremost installing the gold kit (and fuse box fix). I was lucky because I had Dave and Nikki (who wrote the book on it) install my kit.

And once it was ready to go it was started and left to idle to see where they would need to go next. They needed to go nowhere after that because the kit COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY TRANSFORMED MY CAR. No more any of the above stated problems again. I could not believe it nor could they but after 3 totally reliable years and about 14,000 miles later this car is a gem. The idle is PERFECT, no fluctuation at all, no lights of any kind, amazing throttle response and it revs and pulls strong to redline with a much improved torque curve; and it passed emissions with flying colors. After that I had Dave do a major after 6 years that fixed other niggly things (you know like cam timing that was 20% to 100% off, intake/exhaust valves respectively), got the car repainted and now it is argueably the most well sorted and completey "fixed" Mondials on the planet (mine's a t-coupe).

Guys I don't know what numbers and statistical analyses you're looking for but nothing beats "seat of the pants" testing, especially if you really know you car (I've owned mine 8 years and counting). There's nothing more I can add except do yourselves a big favor and buy these friggin' kits!!! and experience a truly reliable Ferrari.

 

Point 1, the Crimpers are perfectly good, the technique being used is flawed. Change the technique, not the tool. Anything that is "flat" means you picked the wrong slot to put the terminal in.

Point 2, Assumptions like this will drive you Bat Crap Crazy, Read my prior posts and learn from those. Fault codes dont directly tell you where the problem is, they NEVER HAVE, they tell you what data the computer is seeing that doesnt fit into it programed parameters. This can be from the noted sensor itself OR a host of other sensors/engine parameters that CAUSE symthoms that give the noted sensor data outside what is expected. Your in ghost chasing mode and need to drop that thinking now! Garbage IN... Garbage OUT, whacha going to believe?

An example to make things a bit clearer, FBB posed a Very good question that I will refer back to because a very small handful learned from it.

Take an O2 sensor code..... A bad sensor is always suspected, it reads OK on the bench but is it slow? Does it give a full range swing when testing it? It's old but if you hold the torch on it until it goes Chernobyl, you can get good voltage readings from it... "it must be OK". Is a torch directly stuffed into a vise mounted O2 sensor a 'realistic' duplication of the sensor operating environment? A sensor that is mounted 2 1/2 feet from the engine? You throw your arms up and say "Its a service part... it must be bad", and then relace it. A test drive shows promise until sitting at the stop light and then the CEL goes on. "It must be a bad sensor.... OR is it a bad connection at the plug, but WHICH plug?" OR is it a bad coolant temp sensor causing the engine to run rich thus feeding the sensor exhaust gases well beyond what it is expecting to see, thus giving a fault code for the sensor itself? A TPS showing WOT at 1050 RPM perhaps? Naw, it must be a bad sensor.....

It could go on for 7 more possible problems that could give the O2 code..... but then I am wasting MY time. Drop the ghost chasing mode, read the instruction book once again, pull up a chair and PRACTICE the crimping, and then get down to the task at hand.

The "Sell this damn thing" Steve from post 96, the owner of production GCK #2 on a spectacular T Coupe.

I used to see Steve and his Lovely Wife on a regular basis. We became good friends and at times he would forgive this dimwit for my inability to fix that Mondial of his. Steve's Wife would often ask "are we going to make it", the question posed with the look that every male knows.... one that states "it had better make it". The upside to these regular shop visits is often Steve, his Wife, Kris and myself would get together for a lunch drive on the weekends in the mountains, WHEN the car happened to be running. I no longer see Steve and his wife, and no longer stand a 50/50 chance of a free lunch and good conversation with friends sitting in the sun in the mountains.

Notice the timeline in Steve's story, the engine management parameters were dealt with Before the engine itself. This is backwards from what should be done but even with the cam timing Royally screwed up by those that proceeded me in there, we were still able to get rid of CEL's and quit burning up Cats with the efforts on the engine management alone. Now Steve Cant sell the car, it is a test mule for more new developments when we had the engine out.... we never pass up the opportunity to use a perfectly good car for a mule in one form or another.

About this point someone will jump in and call "shill" but I have not seen or talked to Steve in 2 months. There IS a downside to actually fixing these problems, the odds of a free beer drop dramatically from 50/50! As I have stated earlier, often there are shills on both sides of a topic, I have experiences being spoken of on mine and I rather that be the case all around.... but it is the Net.... where all things are always clearly laid out for all to see.

 

This one was so good I thought it should be quoted again.

 

You won't see gold connectors in my car ever since there are still tin contacts on the majority of sensors. Major manufactures like AMP warn agianst using gold on tin for a reason. The blurb below (from another sourse) doesn't consider the difference in electrochemical potential with leads to the gold accelerating the corrosion of the tin. It's never a good idea to mix metals in electric circuits unless absolutely necessary. Remember the problems with aluminum wire in houses back in the 70's? You can argue all you like about the benefits observed (real of imagined) immediately after installing the the kit. But long term, physics is physics and gold on tin will degrade faster than tin on tin.

Sorry, don't kill the messenger because you don't like the message.
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Time to Open Both eyes John... you keep spouting this yet refuse to face reality. Unplug your OWN TPS and peer in both the switch AND the contacts. Get ready to sell the car because you are about to be greatly disappointed.

Now YOU are bringing aluminum house wire into this conversation, REALLY? This after your reply to FBB in post 91 and your statement about "pushing rope" in response to a perfectly logical answer backed by Experience?

I have no issues what so ever with the messenger but You Sir have lost credibility with these types of nonsensical replies. Might there be a motive behind your statements? I fault no one for their opinions but spewing theories and stating them as fact..... that I take exception to. What started as a good technical debate has turned into nonsense, and only you can change that.