David Piper restores the Talacrest P4

Taking a Ferrari Classiched no stories car and turning it into a replica/bitsa with an incorrectly made body and an incorrect engine among other things.

So far no one has stepped up to buy Piperised 0858 at the asking price of 25mm$. While this doesn't surprise me how about others?

Do you think someone will step up to buy Piperised 0858 at 25mm$?

 

The disparity in desirability between a Can Am car, desirable as it was, and a P4 is huge.

 

Could be that because Ferrari still exists, is available to return the chassis to its original configuration and, as you say, knows the P4 better than even David, and yet was not retained to do the work, is the source of much of the wonderment in this thread, Paul.

 

Perhaps, but 0858 hasn't been a P4 since 1967 and it will not become a P4 ever again. And the desirability between a genuine Canam car and a rebodied P4 will indeed prove to be huge. In favor of the Canam.

 

Absolutely, they will. It's one of only 3 examples of a World Class, Championship winning car from the Golden Age of Motor Sport, and is to many the most beautiful, exotic and highly revered Ferrari in the world. Talacrest should put the price up. You had your chance to buy it at a great price but the market has moved on a great deal since.

 

The fact that Piperised 0858 has remained unsold for a long time proves your point.

12/feb - offered by Talacrest Ltd., UK C187 p18-19
12/aug - still offered by Talacrest Ltd., UK

13/July- still offered by Talacrest Ltd., UK

 

It proves nothing. Substantial offers have been made for the car. The owners know they have something special and are justifiably holding out for the car's full worth.

 

So is the disparity in desirability between Stroll's P4 and a Piperised Can am/P4.

 

True.

 

Yes. Just because you own history doesn't mean you can butcher it. There is some accountability even if you do own it for the time being.

Let me re-write this for you: The disparity in desirability between a Can Am car, desirable as it was, and a >REAL< P4 is huge.

I hope it goes down this way.

I'm sure they are holding out as it seems that money is all that matters to them. Hopefully they hold out long enough for people not in the know to find out what this car really is.

 

If the car had gone back to Classiche they would have farmed out much of the work leaving little but a mark up on the cost. So much for the theory that what's being done now is a bad thing because it's all just for the money.Right in the Classiche wheel house. And about the English Wheel controversy I have yet to hear anyone come up with a shop that could be counted on to build the new body panels as originally done in the mid 1960s. Actually I am kind of hoping someone will come up with a viable shop and then see what Talacres has to say. tongascrew

 

Right on! tongascrew

 

Napolis has already covered that there are shops that will do this by having it done on his cars. If Talacrest needs someone to point them in the direction of these shops I'd hardly call them experts in P4 restoration.

And I don't think the argument is that Classiche is the right place to transform the car but rather that it shouldn't be transformed at all. The argument here is not who would do it right but that the car is no longer a P4 but is now a 350 Can Am and will always be no matter who try's to disguise it as a P4.

 

If by desirability you mean price.

But it's not something you get to choose.

 

You better get hold of Jim and tell him that if he owns 0858 he better not go out and buy it again. tongascrew

 

I meant 0854. Feel free to reply to the actual content of my comment. Or agree with it.

 

If you take the time to read some of my more recent posts you will see that I give great credit to Jim for his work on 0846. He has set the bar to where he and his work are to be considered a standard to at leased be equaled. David Piper and Talacrest I am sure are well aware of this. Only when more take the time to understand David Piper's contribution to the sport and the P series Ferraris over the past fifty years will they come to realize that to be "Piperised" may be an honorable achievement. Try it and then come back and we will talk. tongascrew

 

Here are the facts as it stands right now: Ferrari will not certify this FrankenFerrari as a P4 now. Ferrari do not want to have anything to do with with 0858 as a P4, that comes straight from the Classiche department. Ferrari certified 0858 as a 350 CAN AM. Ferrari re-engineered 0858 as a 350 CAN AM in period. 0858 has many parts that make it uniquely a 350 CAN AM. No amount of re-bodying, or cutting up history will change the fact that an original Ferrari is being destroyed to make a replica. The offers made on 0858 on are far below what Talacrest is asking. The high offer that was made was 15MUSD, some 10M short of what Talacrest are asking. Recently an offer was made on 0856 for 40MUSD, the offer was turned down. This is how the market views the two cars, a real one and replica rebody story car. So for all of the hemming and hawing about it only mattering how the market views the car, there's your answer, a 25MUSD difference between it and another 'P4'. How do I know this? The same person made both offers. As I said many pages ago, it's all going to end in tears.

 

Racing and maintaining P cars are one thing, for which Piper is due plenty of respect, cutting up Can Am's to pretend they are something they once were for $$$ is quite another, and something not to be respected at all.

 

The Truth, The Whole Truth and Nothing but the Truth.

 

Good Post.

 

Maybe you should take your own advice on this one as it's already been covered in this thread and others. It is quite obvious that there are craftsmen out there capable of this work. The fact that Talacrest has to be led in that direction by forum members when they are assumed to have expertise in P4's is laughable.

Try it and then come back and we will talk.

 

Yep.

 

That is not the point. You stated that people who matter will prefer 0858 as a recreated P4 over 0858 as a factory original 350 Canam. I believe Jim, as owner of 0846 and 0854, amongst other noteworthy vintage competitioncars, belongs to the group of 'people who matter'. As far as I know, he is the only member of that group who has stated his opinion on this matter and he is very clear about it. If his offer would have been accepted, he would now also own 0858 in its Canam-configuration. Jim is not at all interested in 0858 as a recreated P4. Now, I ask you, what does that tell you?

I fail to see how Piper's involvement must be seen as some sort of badge of honor. It doesn't make a P4 body built in 2013 any less of a recreation of a body that was removed from the car over 45 years ago.

And in that sense I am not sure about his contribution either. He extensively raced the things. So? He built some of his own, none of them which could ever be considered genuine Ferrari's. So? How does that add any authenticity to 0858 with a fake P4 body?

 

I'm surprised the bid was that high. Any idea on what Talacrest paid and have put into it?