David Piper restores the Talacrest P4

Yes 250 GTe's have been rebodied into swbs and the community decries this practice.
The breadvan was done in period. If we now tore apart the breadvan and put replica swb body on it that would be equivalent to what has happened to the can am. Actualy the breadvan swb rebody wouodl be more authentic because the motor is still correct.

Point is we dont tear apart surviving period pieces that survive in order to make astheticaly desireable bitsas.

If this car had been nbothing ore than some surviving pieces the turning it into a P4 would have at least been saving something. But tearing apart a complete whole to make something only part whole, sad.

 

I'm pretty sure Jim has already stated that Ferrari would consider 0858 as a car of 'historic interest' (white book) if configured into P4 spec too.

 

He has stated that but it's not true.

 

Source?

 

I wouldn't call a P4 the most famous Ferrari in the world. Perhaps among Ferrari enthusiasts, but even that is a question mark.

On 0858: yes, she started life as a P4. But for how long did she remain in that configuration? This discussion is going on longer than 0858 has been a P4. As a P4 she became obsolete for active competition, so Ferrari decided to end her life as a P4 and give her another identity. That of a 350 Canam.

Since we have yet to master the art of timetravelling, it isn't possible to change 0858 into a pure and authentic P4 like 0856 once was and 0860 still is. It has been said before and I'll say it again, a no stories 350 Canam over a questionable (at best) 'P4'? 0858 with a 2013 body doesn't even deserve to be called a P4, just as one would be wrong in referring to 0858 as a P4 back in, let's say, 1987.

And as far as Ferrari is all about passion, yes, passion for the real thing. Certainly no passion for butchering the genuine article to pretend it is something it once was but can never be again.

 

Ferrari Classiche.

 

That knowbody seemed to want..why?

 

At the auction Ferrari very clearly told me that the engine in 350 Can Am 0858 which is clearly stamped as a 350 Can Am Engine and incidentally has the exact same serial number stamp as the 350 Can Am engine in Piper's P4 replica "0900" was never in a P4. I very clearly asked them if it's block had ever been in a P4 and they said it hadn't. Another potential bidder asked them the same question and received the same answer.

As I said earlier the physical evidence that this engine block was never in a P4 is compelling as it's block has NO P4 Tipo Stamps or serial number and I have personally seen Ferrari Engine blocks that were modified by Ferrari into different Tipo engines that have both Tipo and serial numbers clearly stamped into them.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Pretty sure Ferrari was Jim's source too.

 

Jim was willing to buy, but not for the price the seller wanted. I don't see how marketprice takes anything away from the car or takes away from it's authenticity. So what if a 350 Canam isn't a 40M car. It isn't. So what if a 350 Canam with a replica P4 body is a 40M car, that still doesn't justify cutting up the genuine article.

 

At the time of the auction Ferrari Classiche said they would. As per Tool Fan who posted that they now find what's being done to 0858 an "embarrassment" they no longer will.

 

Now you are saying it's just the block and not the (complete) engine that Ferrari has said has never been in a P4, which even if true would mean that the cylinder heads, crank shaft, con rods, valves, cam shafts, fuel injection etc have been in a P4. Again, for the benefit of the forum, what is the name of the person at Ferrari that stated the above?

 

Strong opinion from Ferrari if true.

I can't help but agree with them.

 

I would guess that is because the B Van has some historical interest due to it actually racing with that bodywork in the day whereas a P4 built in 2013 does not.

 

0858 raced in P4 configuration in the day. The Breadvan is not a Ferrari configuration.

 

We'll see how passionate he/she is if and when they purchase this fake. And that's what it is, a fake

 

Yeah. But the rub is that this is not the P4 that raced in the day. It is a recreation of that P4 using incorrect Can Am parts to form the Illusion. Whereas the actual parts on the Breadvan swapped paint with Ferrari in period. As did the Can Am.

 

Answer this question....

Which car contains more real Ferrari....

0858 P4

or

0858 Can Am

Therein lies the answer to which of these incarnations is the real 0858.

 

They definitely changed their willingness to give it a White Book "P4" from the time of the Auction to today where Tool fan has clearly posted that they won't.

Ferrari was very clear at the time of the auction about what they would and wouldn't do and that they considered 0858 a 350 Can Am as that was what it was what it was when it left the Ferrari Factory and that it no longer was a P4. They answered all question put to them. I and other bidders asked them about the engine and whether it had ever been in a P4 and they clearly said it hadn't. The engine was an important issue for someone who might want to White Book Turn it back to a "P4" which at the time Ferrari was willing to do. The chassis had been in 0858 when it was a P4 and if the engine had been a P4 0858 block bored out to Typo 350 Can Am that would have been important. The second important things engine wise were the heads. As I previously posted I didn't see any Le Mans scrutinizing stamps on them nor did I see any P4 Tipo stamps on the block. Personally I was interested in 0858 as a 350 Can Am but several bidders were a lot more interested in it if it could be a "P4". Ferrari very clearly stated that it couldn't be a Red Book "P4" but at the time of the auction could be a white book "P4".

Ferrari Classiche is very reachable and anyone interested in 0858 should give them a call.

 

True.

 

Very informative Jim.

Thankyou.

 

The answer to your first question is obvious and its replacement parts are being fully disclosed. However, the answer therein does not determine 0858 P4 as a copy. It's a real Ferrari.

 

Some of it is. But a good amount isn't. Whereas it was recently 100% authentic in period Ferrari.

What it isn't is more real P4 then real Can Am.

You can put a Ferrari body on a Fiero. It's still a Fiero.

 

And how many times did you actually say, and so strongly, in this thread that Ferrari would attest 0858 as a Ferrari of Historical Interest, but NOT as a P4?

 

...and by your reasoning. You can put a Piper body on a Ferrari. It's still a Ferrari.