Installing SRI Gold kit today - little help?

14- I don't think there have been any postings from those who have used the kit showing negative outcomes

15- Yes, the kit is a bit fiddly to install, takes patience and a few days to do, and sometimes getting the old pins out of the plugs can be a PITA, (still licking my wounds from being burned by FBB on that one...) so if you're not the type to do that sort of thing, you can always hire it out

16-Nothing is being forced on anyone. If you car runs perfect, enjoy!! If you're getting engine codes you have a choice: start going through all your sensors/wiring etc. , do nothing, or try the gold kit.... it's up to you. Tons of arguments have been made pro and con... if you're not convinced, by all means don't do it. I will throw this out: if you're getting a lot of codes, I would change the O2 sensors before doing anything else...they're cheap and easy. After that I think your options are limited.

17- I personally believe there are 3 reasons the kit may improve things: the gold makes a better contact, the pins have a more reliable and long lived clamping force, and/or the fact that you clean the corrosion on the wires that are nasty and black so that they can transmit a few electrons now. Could be any or all of those. Just my non-double-blind opinion.

18- It ain't super cheap, but in terms of Ferrari parts prices, it sure ain't expensive either. It's the price of a few stupid gas caps.

19- whether you think Dave Helms is a saint or a snake oil salesman, he did put a lot into developing a product for which he saw a need, which can't be easy. He could have just stayed home watching "Le Mans" on the DVD eating Cheetos (maybe some would have preferred he do that??).

20- The instructions are good but not great. If you own a 348, go on Youtube and search "Ferrari 348 gold kit"... that should help at least a little. If you have a 355 and are doing the kit, do a video to help your brethren.

21- We have F-cars, that's gotta put a smile on your face 98% of the time, right?

 

Yes, I have seen lots of posts on O2 sensors. Many of them seem to be regarding codes for post cat sensors on cars which are running test pipes, an issue unrelated to contacts. I have seen many posts on slow down lights. This is often related to cat ECU failure. Again, unrelated to contacts. Furthermore, these connectors are used all over the car: coolant temp sensor, RPM sensor, throttle position sensor, cam position sensor, air temp sensor, MAF, purge valves, injectors,... I haven't read a lot of posts concerning CELs on these issues. So, do we have selective failure on items that are unrelated to connections? Additionally, these connectors are used universally throughout the auto industry, yet they only fail on Ferraris? I get even more skeptical when I start reading about failures of unrelated items which are used to bolster support for things of any nature. Just how does a connector correct an O2 sensor with failed heater element?

How long will gold connectors last? Under what conditions? How many of the 11k + 355s have this kit installed? How many really had connection related problems? If there are bad connections certainly new terminals should help. But we don't know, and we don't know how long such a repair would last if the terminals were replace with new tin ones. Of course, there is the lure of gold. The assumption is that it must be better. And who would lay out the bucks for a "Tin connector kit"? The warnings about mixing metals by connector manufactures, and from other sources, who know a few thing about chemistry, metallurgy, and conductivity have fallen on a deaf ear. Qoute all the subjective data you like, there is really little to be said objectively in support of what is essentially bad engineering.

Gold makes a better contact. -- Myth.

The pins have a more reliable and long lived clamping force -- Unsubstantiated. They may be better than the old terminals but not necessarily better than new tin ones. The clamping force depends on the underlying material. But this is not a gold or tin issue, its a new vs old issue.

The fact that you clean the corrosion on the wires that are nasty and black so that they can transmit a few electrons now -- Agreed.

 

Im going with the Snakeoil Dimwit option..... its the only logical choice of the bunch! Sometimes I wonder why the heck I am doing this to myself... I really enjoy Cheeto's and a Diet Pepsi and the thought of sitting on the couch for extended periods..... plant the idea and now I might have to give that a try.

Every time the same argument comes up I go back to the fact that Ferrari themselves used Gold on Tin on critical plugs, many manufacturers did as a matter of fact. Research on this mating, using Many dozens of examples as a guide, shows that these contacts are by far the best in the whole engine bay in terms of long term hold up. Trust me, I didnt want to pay for gold when I was starting this, I did them all in Tin at first. The next step was the cheaper commercially available gold contacts because I damn sure didnt want to use the uber expensive MilSpec ones I had to buy in batches of many thousand at a time! I have been there... if you can think of a cheaper way to get it done, I was there years ago and if it changed, it is because I proved it not to provide a good value... simple as that.

Is it Perfect? Hell no. Would one design a new system around the dissimular metals? Of course not, it doesnt take a EE to figure that out.... a Sparky could tell you that. Are owners willing to pay what it takes to do it Perfect in every respect? THAT is the question that will be answered soon!

I read this site to get a feeling of what lengths owners are willing to go to save a few hundred dollars. A lock and swap cam belt change when that puts a set of expensive Cats at risk and all but assures the owner will never realize the full performance the car has to offer. This by itself is interesting to me because it answers so many questions and raises dozens more beyond those. It isnt about cam timing, you can take anything you read in these threads and substitute it for cam timing, I simply use that as an example.

The point being, owners are willing to take high cost risks in the interest in saving money, those risks being far more expensive that the cost to do the job Correctly. The second thing it tells me is that the allure of the ultimate performance car being at its absolute peak in performance, simply stated is not what interests owners enough to pay for having "it" done, what ever "if" is. Folks, the service industry has heard your requests and we have adapted to suit your wants... you wanted it, you got it.... but an engine IN service, REALLY... are there no sane limits?

Now take this break down I have laid out and plug it into my quest of making the ultimate snakeoil.... are you flippin Nuts, what fool would do that? On a wildly optomistic view I estimated that my target audiance would be about 3-5%, that's it. One or two of my team of advisors (oh yes, no changes are made, nothing is done what so ever unless it is decided by a Team, I took my own personal quests out of this and put a team of brilliant folks together so many eyes are looking at a given issue, not some doorknob with a dream, alone) suggested they thought the numbers would be closer to 8-9% but I discarded those numbers because they were the exception.

Given these target numbers, I had to design for the industries wishes of Cheap at any cost and cut corners where ever possible by eliminating any difficult aspect of an install to an already PITA job. About three years ago I pulled the plug on the entire project with the thought if I couldnt do it right... I had no interest in doing it at all. That stint of sitting on the couch practicing relaxing brought up a whole new thought, given the benefit of the doubt, maybe owners are heading this direction because they think it provides the best Value and there is no difference what so ever between Cluge and Correct.... Maybe it is us in the industry that failed to advise the owners correctly. There is but a handful in the industry doing it Right but maybe those that are failed to educate those owners willing to listen.... here we have the problem of one beating their head against the brick wall, Only for the reason that it feels so good when they stop! It is a highly complex set of issues that involves personalities, wishes, expectations... and stupid amounts of money no matter which side of the argument you stand on.

Am I doing it Right? NO! Am I doing it in the best method technology has to offer? Not a chance! Do I have all the answers? Who ME? Hell no, dont think that for a moment. Will it last for ever? Are you Nuts, its a mechanical thing for crying out loud. I am simply on a quest that NO one else was willing to do, one that makes NO sense to a logical thinking person that ever plans to retire. I put the plug back in the dam, got up off the couch and I am throwing things against the wall in an effort to see what sticks, and like a fool, I am doing that in public view. I make vastly more mistakes than I do wise choices but have found a pot holed winding road that seems to have a pretty bright light at the far end.... and I have tried to convince myself it isnt the headlight of a train. If you think I and my team of advisors are wrong, RUN AWAY and for goodness sakes, dont come near it! I am balancing on a razors edge of finding a practical, within reason method of achieving Perfection cheaply... how hard can that be?

 

Gold doesn't easily tarnish/oxidize . -- Confirmed

 

Dave,

I just wanted to say "Thank You" for all the help making my 1995 Ferrari 348 Spider a much more enjoyable experience to drive/own. If you really are planning on driving/keeping your 348, just go ahead & install the SRI Gold Connector Kit, along with the high quality silicone hose kit. Your driving/owning experience will be enhanced greatly, along with an even bigger smile. FYI: Labor costs are lower if you have the kit installed when doing the engine out major service. Carlo at Alfa of Tacoma & Bradan are experienced at this install/kit, if you do not want to perform it yourself.

surfwolf

 

But gold on tin corroded/oxidizes faster than tin on tin, or gold on gold.

DH: Please don't use Ferrari as an example after you spend so much time criticizing them for their poor engineering. There reputation isn't that good. Remember the initial 458s that used adhesive on (I think) the rear fender liners that turn the cars into back yard barbecues? If Ferrari does it, it doesn't make it right. Physics is physics, chemistry is chemistry. Doesn't matter if it's Ferrari or Kia who decides to use gold on tin connections. The properties and consequences of the mixed metal is the same. I realize you are sort of in a box here. You have to defend you position. That's what they call being between a rock and a hard spot. I really don't care to argue about it further. Nothing you can say would sway me. Having retired for 30 years work in defense/space related electronics I can tell you, as you probably know, they would not accept a device with gold on tin contacts. It's just not metallurgically sound.

The bottom line here is Ketel's problems and I sincerely hope he gets his car straitened out. I still think that if he is seeing O2 heater short code he should test the heater element in the O2 sensor before anything else. It's shorted or it's not (or intermittently shorted, see below).

By the way, on a related note, I know some of these problems are hard to find. Before I bought my car the records showed that a previous owner reported problems with the passenger side fan not coming on. Ferrari of Huston checked it out and reported all working correctly. When I got car first day out it was in the 90's and the car drove fine. A week or two later, on a cooler day but with some spirited driving I noticed the car was running a little hotter than it should. I tracked it down to the 1-4 bank (I have a 2.7) coolant temp sensor. It measure 75k ohm when cool instead of around 2k. I replaced it and all was well. But the thing is, for ****s a giggles I decided to check the old sensor in vitro. Surprise, it measured 2k. So I heated up some water in the microwave and dropped it in to test functionality. Sure enough the resistance started to drop just as it should. Got down to about 400 ohms then, pop, it jumped to 80k ohms. Then starts bouncing around all over the place. This "ghost" had probably eluded diagnostics for years. I was lucky to hit on it. So I sympathize with those who encounter problems which seem to avoid diagnosis. I could have easily assumed this was a connection problem if the sensor had measured correctly while still in the car.

 

In my 20 years of supporting NASA and DoD with SLS, Space Station, Mars landers, Missile Defense and a few other unspeakable programs, I can tell you that when someone chimes in spouting their engineering prowess due to these two agencies I automatically discount them. I'm constantly amazed at the quantity of addlepated dunderheads within these agencies. Just because NASA or DoD does or doesn't do it means diddly. ESPECIALLY NASA. If there was ever an agency that needs to be shut down and rebooted, it's that collection of idiots. Why do you think they are discovering that sequestration really isn't hurting most programs within those agencies? Because there are so many zeros working there that cutting a few doesn't even show up on the program milestone charts.

When people get excited and ask me what I do as a physicist working in the defense and space programs, my response is the same: I sit at my desk for 8 hours a day and weep for the loss of my soul.

So tin on tin, tin on gold, gold on gold, chocolate and peanut butter, peanut butter and chocolate...whatever your fancy. Go for it.

Me? I chose to follow what a hundred other owners have found: SRI GCK improved my car significantly, and I already had a good running car. For that, I could care less if it was moose knuckle toe jam slathered on my connectors. What works, works. The end. Thanks for playin'.

The OP came here asking for advice and/or help with installing the kit. He didn't ask for a debate from the oompa loompa's of science about metalic interfaces. So how's about a nice refreshing drink....
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You would be surprised at how much I respect your tenacity and efforts like your coolant temp issues. That said, you are making rookie level assumptions and mistakes, common to new owners on these cars. I recently finished helping an owner with CEL's where there was more bad advise given than good, your own being a part of that, you decide which is which.

IF you assume what you read on the Net is accurate and you Assume you understand the Motronic logic path.... a monkey can fix these cars issues with no regard to history of the problems. That is exactly what brought us to the point where we find ourselves now, I Myself guilty of the same. For me that admission is vastly more damming because I am Supposed to And Expected to know what I was talking about. I failed my own customers by never turning over rocks and searching beyond what I was taught was right... taught by Ferrari themselves. Assume but Verify was dropped and we blindly followed what we were told was right. Spread on the Stab 22... it will fix everything! Then a year later having to spend untold hours reversing that mistake I charged owners to do.

Do your own car how ever you want and use that single example that you base your knowledge on... and call it fact. Poo-poo Mercedes, Porsche, Ferrari... and a host of others for what they did and call it a flop, that is your right to do so and I firmly defend your right to do that. My mentors asked the question to me decades ago "So, you think you know more than a team of the most brilliant engineers in the world?".... if you want to talk about a slap down that forced me to view these cars in an entirely different way, that was it! That was one of the single most important lessons I have ever had, it forced me to think well beyond the obvious and to not react with a hip shot unless at the race track and forced to do so.

Some 38-40 years after I was asked that important question... in a few examples I can state yes and no in regard to knowing more. To answer that question one has to determine if what is being taught has a job security motive behind it OR if it is a common belief. Daily I fix what engineers screwed the pooch on (history is a pretty good teacher), none of us is perfect. Remember, "Policy is the result of experience..... Experience is the result of bad judgement".... Bad judgement is the ONLY thing I have perfected!

 

I find it priceless when people make comments suck as "dumb engineers", "idiots" or alike, especially when they have no experience doing what an engineer does. In my career, I've done machine design with thousands of parts, and a large percent of custom parts, having one shot to get it right (zero prototypes) and I've pulled it off. In hind sight could I have made some area's better? Absolutely, but time and money did not permit.

When I worked for GM, it blew my mind how fast the company took a product from concept to market. And the scope of that task is something only a few understand. The automotive engineers do a dam good job given the constraints they have such as ridiculous schedules and tight budgets (relatively speaking). It's so easy to be a critic on a product that one had ZERO involvement. But, having experienced what I have in my life, I know the only way to a perfect product is endless prototypes and our society and economy won't support that.

 

Words from a retired industry insider...

Believe nothing anyone says and only half of what you see
It's correct when you get a piece of the gooey cake

 

Step back and read what is said about mechanics! Grow some thicker skin is the only advise that worked for me. No one is perfect but the trend is to state "I am an Engineer so....". When that is the statement that starts a post.... well..... respect is earned and I know many good engineers and some that cant find their ass with both hands. You read the same swill I do.... now read the statements about mechanics and give me your take on That.

""I know the only way to a perfect product is endless prototypes and our society and economy won't support that"" BINGO!

 

I was a thermal engineer for over a decade working day in and day out with the mechanical designers and test engineers. I know EXACTLY what they do. I've seen the good and the bad. As a private sector engineer, you would be MORTIFIED by how things are done in the government. In the private sector results mean profit. In the government...ahh..we'll just slip the schedule or ask for another billion. It's madness.

I see the same traits here on FDebate that I've seen in meeting after meeting arguing the minutae hours on end as nothing really gets done.

And as luck would have it, I just had to stop typing this to go argue minutae. Kill me. Kill me now.

 

Hell, I can't handle this Ferrari ownership thing any more. I'm gonna go buy a Prius.

 

Be sure and replace all the gold connectors with tin. You'll get an extra 10 miles per gallon.

Someone please ban me! Save me from myself! I'm arguing with engineers at work and arguing with them on FChat. Screw this. I'm going to the My Little Pony forum.
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Engineers and the frustrating reality:

I have some experience with this type of argument.

As a racing driver I have done set up work on race car chassis for nearly 30 years with great success. I am not a papered engineer, but my set ups have been preferred by pro drivers and have out-run many set ups done by engineers WAY smarter than me.

This reality always confounds the papered engineer...they spend a lot of time telling me what is wrong with my set ups and why they can't possibly be faster than theirs. They usually do this in post race impound after looking over my cars and trying to figure out why they got beat

The moral here is: "Worry less about what is right in a textbook, and pay more attention to what actually WORKS" Very often they are not the same.

In this case, Dave Helms seems to have figured out a product that has made lots of people very happy with their cars for a long time. It has solved lots of the frustrating things that people tend to get rid of Ferrari's for.

Perhaps its not the gold that is important, perhaps tighter tin connectors of the same design would work just as well and be cheaper and less prone to corrosion than Gold.....who cares? If it bugs you that it works, build and market your own kits and prove it.

Until then, you other propeller heads can scratch your heads and try to point to all the reasons why it shouldn't work...but it does.

I am not yet an SRI customer, but my next major is coming up...

 

The word "Engineering" has lost it's meaning in recent times.

Per wiki: Engineering is the application of scientific, economic, social, and practical knowledge in order to design, build, and maintain structures, machines, devices, systems, materials and processes.

Just because I have a mechanical engineering degree, I do think I'm smarter than the next guy. I certainly am more educated in the field of engineering than someone without an engineering degree.

In reference to your race car setups: One could agrue that's not true engineering, but it's certainly takes many years of experience and knowledge and I don't make light of that.

What an engineer could (or should be able to do) that you may not, is study the forces and material and design more robust components that will hold up against load with the least amount of material and weight. That's true engineering.

 

Just remember that where (the company in particular ) you are now ---- is run by Engineers. And, there is good reason for that. After you have been there longer, you will come to realize that they are the best-of-the-best, the crèam-of-the-crop ---- and some of those ME design guys may very likely make you look better than you actually are one day .

There are still a few Thermal Analysts and Structural Analysts there who no doubt can recall a time or two when I personally bailed them out by innovative design approaches that gave them back some precious margin ----- and allowed them not to have to sweat bullets at PDR (or beg the Systems guys for performance reductions) !!!

.......ahhhhhh.....the good old days

 

I'm speaking of past employment. Where I'm at now is where stuff is actually made. There is the occasional focus of irrelevant crap...usually driven by the customers that I described above. Mechanical Designers have been and always will be the easiest to work with. They just want to get hardware built and pushed in orbit. AMEN. It was the System Engineers and Electricians that drove me bonkers. The constant arguments of the meaning of "shall", "will" and "must" amongst the paper pushers that made me want to open a vein.

True "Systems Engineers" practically don't exist anymore within NASA and DoD. Systems Engineer has become code for "I just don't have any more work so I'll go to meetings and write documents". When you have a real systems guy on a program, it makes you REALLY hate the white collar welfare guys...of which there are thousands within the DoD/NASA system.

Yes, I've become jaded....well...MORE jaded.

 

Truer words have rarely been typed on this site.

 

I wonder why things that were built 100 years ago seem to last longer than the things designed by engineers nowadays? Engineers are more for saving money and building things to minimum spec these days. A house built today will not stand for 100 years....not a chance. Just look at some of the more modern bridges that have been designed by "engineers" in the last 40 years....many are falling down due to critical failures while 100 year old bridges still stand. Ask the challenger astronauts what they think about engineers that f up an o-ring. O and lets not forget the great engineering feats of oil drilling in the gulf of mexico and the great valves designs. But one of the best engineering feats of late has to be "fracking", another great way to get oil out of the ground which also allows those living close by to ignite their garden hoses while watering the garden. Poisoning all ground water within hundreds of miles. So much for modern day engineers.
Getting back to the gold connectors. If you have a Ferrari and you want it to run to its optimum then get the connectors done. If you are one of the majority that buy the cheapest Ferrari you can find, drive it and then complain that its a POS, then please don't buy the kit because the connectors are the least of your worries. You should worry more about buying a strong boring bit that will last for at least the two 30k services that you will do in your garage in the next 20 years as those frame cross members are very hard to drill though. As for the rest that are commenting here and don't even own a Ferrari....STFU is all I can say to you.

 

I would love to meet the "engineers" who designed the Audi S4. I would take them by the ear and tell them to change the front oxygen senors in the allotted time it says in the flat rate manual. They can even use my tools. (but not the one that I designed to get them out with out removing the exhaust manifold).

Show me the engineer who designed the toureg v8 alternator set up. Liquid cooled, yes they fail, engine out to change it. Bring them on..I'll show them how to do it in the car in half the time and expense.

Show me the engineer who designed the air injection system in the Q5. The system runs through the cylinder heads. The air injection ports clogg up causing a low flow fault. Engine out. You have to buy a flexible drill bit, to bore out the passage of carbon build up in the heads. Big job even with the engine out. On both heads. Customers are not happy with their audi when they are out of warranty.

Show me the engineer who hangs an abs pump in the middle of a frame rail under the car, completely exposed to the elements. With no shielding of any sort to protect it.

Engineers make some wonderful things, but damn..some of them just don't think or care about the end user.

 

Moral of the story; don't buy an out of warranty Audi

 

......AND engineers brought us the source of passion we are debating.

As stated before, there are good and bad but demanding respect because of the title is a waste of good air to those in the service industry. Titles do nothing for me, you should see some of the jobs I get in done by the very people we are speaking of.

My title, CEO, Business Owner, Designer.... it also means I am the Janitor and the last to get paid..... anyone want a Ferrari shop? For Sale by Owner, long hours, low pay, operators standing by!

 

Can I buy it and let the profits make the payments? If you agree to stay, I'll give you a raise to $10/hr.!!!!!

 

We had an "engineer" customer who decided to up grade the brakes on his m3. For the life of him, he coud not get the air out of the system. He towed in the car. I pulled a wheel and laughed my ass off. He had the calipers upside down. He swore over the phone up and down there was nothing wrong with his install. He wanted us to replace the abs unit. Constantly sighting his credentials as a highly respected mechanical engineer..we fixed the car and didn't charge him a penny. The laughs were payment enough...

Yes engineers are responsible in the most part for the cars we enjoy. But we make a living fixing their issues!! Lol.