Looking for 5.2 (96 and newer) owner who's installing straight pipes | FerrariChat

Looking for 5.2 (96 and newer) owner who's installing straight pipes

Discussion in '348/355' started by dantm, Jul 11, 2013.

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  1. dantm

    dantm Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2003
    1,104
    YYZ, BOS, SFO
    Full Name:
    Dan B.
    I have a 2.7 with no cats and I had the solid Slow Down light(s) in my car.

    There were two-three scenarios when addressing this:

    (1) Ignore the lights;

    (2) Remove the dash lights for Slow Down 1-4 and 5-8 -- not the most elegant;

    (3) Disconnect and remove the CAT ECUs -- lights stayed on solid;

    (4) Provide an input to the CAT ECUs where they think a thermocouple is connected but thermocouple reads ambient temperature

    Some of these options were discussed in earlier threads...

    My worry with (1) - (3) is whether the light that goes to the dash also may trip up some computer function in the ECU such that the engine banks may be shut down unexpectedly.

    I've therefore developed my own mini-thermo-couple/connector that plugs in the CAT ECU directly. On the 2.7 (my 96 Euro CH and a friend's 95) this has the desired effect - the light goes off.

    I was thinking on whether this would be useful to the 5.2 (96 - up) cars where the owners want to get rid of cats but don't want to re-program the ECU to get rid of the light?

    Therefore I'm looking for anybody who may be interested in testing this free of charge and seeing if it works on a 5.2 system. I will guarantee that it does not damage your ECUs or I'll pay for them straight up.

    Thank you.
     
  2. F355steve

    F355steve Formula 3

    Apr 9, 2008
    2,089
    Honolulu - Seattle - Okinawa
    Full Name:
    Steve
    I'm interested but I'm not sure I fully understand. You are getting a SDL because you have test pipes?

    I currently have test pipes on my 5.2 and would be interested in exploring any way to permanently disable the SDL. I would also be interested in anything that could disable the rear O2 sensors...
     
  3. dantm

    dantm Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2003
    1,104
    YYZ, BOS, SFO
    Full Name:
    Dan B.
    In my case I have a straight pipe all the way from the headers to the back of the car. The car came with two CAT ECUs -- one in each rear fender.

    These CAT ECUs were plugged each into one of the two Bosch 2.7 ECUs located right next to them -- this was through a 4 pin connector which was hooked up to the main ECU.

    However, the *input* to the CAT ECU is a 2-pin connector which goes to a thermocouple (my car has 2 of these, I think the 5.2 versions have three?). This connector was left disconnected.

    The thing I built just plugs into the place where the thermocouple would be.

    Just as an example of a thermocouple -- here's one set that was for sale recently used:

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/ferrari-parts-collectibles/413529-355-thermocouple-temp-sensor-set.html

    In my case I have the black connector, a short low-cost thermocouple of the same type (K) and everything is epoxied together in a package. You just plug in these things in and away you go.

    The alternative is (at least to my understanding) programming the main ECUs so they do not care about the CAT ECUs; then you can remove the CAT ECUs altogether. However, this creates the issue of passing inspection and reinstalling them/cats, etc.
     
  4. F355steve

    F355steve Formula 3

    Apr 9, 2008
    2,089
    Honolulu - Seattle - Okinawa
    Full Name:
    Steve
    I think I understand what you are doing and what you have created I just don't see the connection between having test pipes and therefore getting the SDL. Unless there is something I don't understand about the system the SDL malfunction has nothing to do with cats vs. straight pipes.

    I have test pipes and since installing the SRI Gold Connector Kit I don't have a SDL with a mind of its own. So I don't think I could test your creation.
     
  5. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

    May 26, 2006
    10,244
    U.S.A.
    Full Name:
    goth
    when were the straight pipes installed and when did the solid SDL come on?
     
  6. dantm

    dantm Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2003
    1,104
    YYZ, BOS, SFO
    Full Name:
    Dan B.
    If test pipes replace cats then I think your thermocouple goes away because it doesn't make sense to measure the temperature of the test pipe and feed that into the CAT ECU.

    However I'm very confused to see the connection between a SDL and Gold Connector Kit unless your light was related to something else?
     
  7. F355steve

    F355steve Formula 3

    Apr 9, 2008
    2,089
    Honolulu - Seattle - Okinawa
    Full Name:
    Steve
    The test pipes have a place for the thermocouple probes and they are installed just as if I had cats. They are never going to get as hot as if they were in cats so no worries there. This doesn't effect how much the thermocouple/cat ECU's malfunction.

    The GCK doesn't replace anything between the probe and cat ECU but it does replace bits between the cat ecu's and the main 5.2 ECU.

    I guess putting your creation on my car would help determine if they work in fooling the cat ECU's but wouldn't guarantee that malfuctions in the overall system would be removed. I believe you would need to remove the cat ECU's from the system all together and create a device that mimics what the Motronic want to see from the cat ECU as opposed to what the cat ECU want to see from the thermocouple.
     
  8. dantm

    dantm Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2003
    1,104
    YYZ, BOS, SFO
    Full Name:
    Dan B.

    I think this has been done through the ECU reprogramming? I don't think the info regarding CAT ECU <-> Motronic communication is easy to find out or to tweak.

    My solution is aiming to be a < $50 fix or test low-cost solution rather than an overall answer to this issue. However, on two F355s with 2.7s it works remarkably well so far.
     
  9. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
    6,918
    Richmond
    Full Name:
    Pete
    I think most with straight pipes just tie the existing thermocouples out of the way and leave them plugged in and the computer doesn't care. In your case, somebody had disconnected and removed the thermocouples entirely, so to get rid of the lights you had to fool the cat ecus. For most, they'd be just as well served by sticking the stock thermocouples in epoxy or tying them out of the way (that's how mine are, dangling in the wind).

    I'm glad to see a standard k-type thermocouple works, you may want to put that in the parts interchange thread.
     
  10. embraer

    embraer Formula Junior

    Nov 2, 2012
    284
    Indy
    Full Name:
    Mike
    I run test pipes (both primary and secondary) with a factory Challenge exhaust. I don't get any check engine lights, and they are functioning.

    I leave the bypass functioning, which creates the proper backpressure. When I deleted the bypass valve, I would get the CEL lights while it was idling. They would go out when back on the throttle.

    My car is a 2.7

    Just my experience
     

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