1998 355 F1 clutch questions: Advise please

It means someone didnt do a proper computer setup on the last clutch replacement. The % worn is a near useless number unless the person doing the last replacement set up the programming correctly. Its more a sales tool than a useable number

 

When a new clutch is installed the computer relearns the TOB position when instructed to do so. The software knows how much wear material can go away before it is "used up", hence counting down from the newly learned position and giving the "percentage of wear" numbers so many long for. An overly simplified version of an answer but one where you should be able to understand what you are seeing.

It is not unusal for us to see clutch wear numbers in the 150% worn range... still driving fine with no problems. Every time a custom clutch set up is done it changes the wear numbers showing. Very few now take the time to do these set ups with an SD tester where the new clutch numbers are saved.

 

This is a very interesting topic because at some point I will need a new clutch and would like to do the work myself since 1) I enjoy it 2) no service companies anywhere near me.

This brings me to my next question: I won't have access to a SD1 and I've read many debates about doing an F1 clutch without the SD, Dave, what is your experience an opinion regarding this? Also, I know it will vary but what is the approximate mileage that a clutch will last?

Thanks for your reply in advance Dave.

 

Clutch life? How long is a piece of string? It all depends on how it is used.

There are as many variations on how to do a clutch as there are opinions. Which is right? How well do you want it to work? How many bad F1 habits are you willing to accept? Many accept that this is just how the 355 F1 system is, an incorrect assumption to an extreme.

For myself, I would rather have a blueprinted and correctly set up 355 F1 than Any of the drive by wire versions... Any Day! When they are right, they are a joy to own and can last a Very long time.

As to how to accomplish this without an SD.... I am at a complete loss as I have never had to try it without one. I consider it an essential piece of equipment to do the job right, maybe that makes ME the fool.

 

I knew the clutch life question was a blank check. I realize city verse highway driving will make a huge difference. My car now has 12k miles and the clutch seems perfect, perfect as far as I am capable of judging.

I'm very careful when driving in stop and go traffic. I try to avoid disengaging the clutch as best as I can.

I recall a lower cost version of the SD being developed for $5k, and if it reviews well, I'll probably buy it.

 

Was the TCU set up properly at the time of the last clutch job? The answer is 'doubtful'. The follow up question is then How does it work? That is a vastly better indicator than the numbers you gave.

 

If you do a search many have used alternate clutches, to answer your question on wear I think is impossible because the numbers do not make sense to me. From the look of my WSM total clutch wear must be under 25 mm 1 inch it also indicates about 6 mm per disc I think but not sure. I have an f1 and your clutch will go just like in a regular car. You will feel it start to slip and in the f1 you transmission light will flash and a beeping will be heard indicating your clutch is getting hot. When I priced clutches you can get them replaced at a dealer for about 3 thousand or DIY for 1500 or Kevlar for about same. Many examples through the search. Dave is right on setup but its a matter of personal choice and if you do DIY I believe you can take it to a dealer and they can set it after to read 0 percent or new clutch.

 

Careful with all the wizbang offerings. The TCU software is programmed for a given coefficient of friction of the clutch. Change this and you start throwing variables into everything the computer knows. Those that say it works fine....... have never driven a car that works Right

 

TCU?

 

Transmission Control Unit

 

Tell ya what would be nice. If a person or shop with an SD2 could dump the clutch/F1 parameters on a car in for clutch service, replace the clutch and perform the self calibration procedure in the factory manual, then dump the clutch/F1 parameters to verify how complete and accurate the self calibration is compared to the SD2 procedure. And if there are differences what are they and do they matter? That would be a real service to the community and would clear up a big mystery. But of course nobody will, lets keep the big secret.

Its just a matter of time before someone uses an off the shelf technology (ipad, raspberry pi etc.) to replicate SD2 functions.

 

Funny you should mention this.....my buddy is a software genius and I was thinking of approaching him to do this but I gotta believe Ferrari locked out some access...

 

Excellent statement.......I am going to go out on a limb and say that most F1 owners have not experienced the full potential of what this system is capable of doing WHEN(and ONLY when) everything has been properly set-up.

 

I don't know, they may have been lax in securing it, don't know how concerned they were about protecting an off the shelf Bosh ECU. Either way it is a 20 year old system that sends commands and data back and forth and I think a careful study of the packets could quickly show what the SD2 is doing, and it isn't magic. After that a FPGA with suitable GPIOs could be used to interface a device be it a ipad, laptop, Pi etc. Lots of ECU tune flashers and diag tools have been build just that way, our Bosh ECUs are nothing special just that nobody has done it at the hobby level, Leonardo is the obvious exception but instead of going with the low cost option of an interface tied to a computer they went for a much more expensive and multi platform device and did so as a business for profit. I know a few programmers that might be up to this, and I have been looking around for a deal on an SD2.

 

It's my understanding that the 355 uses SD1, not SD2, or do they both work?

 

Yes. UBER high technology!!! DOS based

 

Was not really thinking about the Kevlar that way but point taken. Was more so trying to explain why no one can tell him how much clutch wear he has left. The way I was reading the previous posts I think he thought some of you were ignoring the question. I always defend the f1 system because I feel my whole setup works excellent however the only way I would know for sure is if someone who has driven many would drive it and say that it works properly. I do know that when I took it in for a clutch wear reading the ferrari mechanic said he had never felt a 355 clutch work this good and that it was better then most 360 they had serviced. He told me this before telling me it was 110 percent worn and confirming that the number does not mean a whole bunch.

 

I do have a question for the experts though if IF the system is setup right have they seen a consistent number (125%) or something that would normally mean your clutch is getting close to being worn out?

 

I just want to throw in my 2 cents for the F1 "I LOVE IT!"
I really just wanted to subscribe for the info.

 

A LOT of assuming going on here, most often incorrect and presented in a slightly insulting way. DAMN.... maybe modify the approach a bit, ya think?

This question is no different than previous ones. No factual data presented on the present condition of the components involved. No mention of the driving style. No mention of fact based history of the car.... and from this I am supposed to say how long a clutch will last based on inaccurate numbers presented?

IF I could answer the question accurately with the facts presented, I would. There is already plenty of guessing going on around here, most presented as fact.

 

Was not trying to upset anyone just trying to help. I know how it is when your not getting any. Sorry to whoever I've upset.

 

Dave I think you have contributed allot, I have bought your products and referred many to them with my factual experience. What I posted was a pretty straight forward thing, how the clutch was worn, who drove the car, and what the weather was is immaterial. I certainly didn't ask for anyone to conjure up a clutch life prediction for an F1.

There is a great deal of speculation and guesswork as to exactly what the self calibration procedure does for the 355 F1. It may be a full and correct calibration for a new clutch or it may be inferior to the SD based procedure. Doing a comparison of the results of a self calibration using data obtained before and after from an SD against the results of a SD based clutch calibration would tell us just how complete and accurate that self calibration procedure is.