Affordable control arm bushing replacement? | FerrariChat

Affordable control arm bushing replacement?

Discussion in '360/430' started by daflk, Jul 18, 2013.

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  1. daflk

    daflk Formula Junior

    Jan 27, 2013
    257
    Hong Kong
    Can anyone refer me to a supplier who can provide affordable control arm bushings for the 360? I want to replace all 16 control arm bushings (top and bottom, front and rear).

    What superformance has offered is not affordable, nor are the OEM ones available on Eurospares or Ricambi.

    Would also appreciate any contacts for after market shops that can machine these for me.

    Thanks!
     
  2. awatkins

    awatkins Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2005
    396
    SFO Peninsula
    Full Name:
    Alan Watkins
    There is a very recent thread about energy suspension's product.
     
  3. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 29, 2006
    18,221
    Twin Cities
    Full Name:
    Tim Keseluk
    How are your ball joints? They are a common wear item on 360s.
     
  4. cm2

    cm2 Formula 3

    Sep 26, 2012
    1,451
    SF Bay
    Full Name:
    Nathan
    Welcome to the club!
     
  5. rnelson

    rnelson F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 3, 2005
    4,881
    Pm me more details about the size/shape/cost and I can check into this.

    I have a rubber/polyurathane factory I regularly use overseas but tooling and moq would be prohibitive unless there is enough demand from other owners.
     
  6. awatkins

    awatkins Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2005
    396
    SFO Peninsula
    Full Name:
    Alan Watkins
    #6 awatkins, Jul 18, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2013
  7. daflk

    daflk Formula Junior

    Jan 27, 2013
    257
    Hong Kong
    Actually, I started those threads, to no avail. Re-doing it under new heading to see if anyone can chime in.

    My ball joints were replaced by previous owner, according to the same independent, for some reason the bushings were never replaced, only the control arms / ball joints. Maybe a costs issue.
     
  8. FerrariDublin

    FerrariDublin F1 Rookie

    Jun 14, 2009
    3,454
    Dublin, Ireland
    Full Name:
    Greg
    Unfortunately nobody seems to have cracked this problem yet.

    I too feel the SuperPerformance package is too expensive to simply jump in to given that the OEM items are not that much more expensive and are, at least, a known quantity.

    Happy to have someone prove me wrong though and produce a quality replacement at a reasonable price! :D
     
  9. daflk

    daflk Formula Junior

    Jan 27, 2013
    257
    Hong Kong
    I've done a forum search and a few members mentioned they had their own delrin control arm bushings machined, msged them and if I hear back ill update here!
     
  10. awatkins

    awatkins Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2005
    396
    SFO Peninsula
    Full Name:
    Alan Watkins
    People generally do that for pure performance reasons (eg track use), not because it's cheaper, although that is a secondary benefit. Delrin is essentially uncompressible unlike the rubber in your current bushings and will cause your ride to be harsh and noisy. The Energy Performance bushings will likely not have that disadvantage.
     
  11. daflk

    daflk Formula Junior

    Jan 27, 2013
    257
    Hong Kong
    I've emailed Energy Suspension, they confirmed their bushings do not fit the 360/430, they are based on another OEM part which is shared with the Testarossa etc, older generation of Ferraris but not the relatively newer v8 suspension platforms.
     
  12. dell550

    dell550 Karting

    Aug 24, 2005
    209
    London
    Full Name:
    george c
    I have rebushed over 10 360/612's this year alone and have commissioned one of my customers to make me these flan blocks as Ferrari call them . We are about 2 months away from delivery and I will be fitting a set to our demonstrator which works very hard both on the road and at track days . I will update on here as soon as I more news .
     
  13. cm2

    cm2 Formula 3

    Sep 26, 2012
    1,451
    SF Bay
    Full Name:
    Nathan
    What kind of material? Are they inserts? If so, for which model (360, challenge, or CS)?
     
  14. daflk

    daflk Formula Junior

    Jan 27, 2013
    257
    Hong Kong
    I think all 360/430s are the same fitting, the question seems to be just what material you prefer.
     
  15. daflk

    daflk Formula Junior

    Jan 27, 2013
    257
    Hong Kong
    Are you able to get your customer to fabricate a full set fof some of us here directly?
     
  16. cm2

    cm2 Formula 3

    Sep 26, 2012
    1,451
    SF Bay
    Full Name:
    Nathan
    They appear to have different construction, so they won't all be compatable if they are just making up the rubber. Same control arms and fit, if they are making the whole piece.
     
  17. awatkins

    awatkins Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2005
    396
    SFO Peninsula
    Full Name:
    Alan Watkins
    They all have different part numbers. What leads you to the conclusion the only difference is one material?
     
  18. FerrariDublin

    FerrariDublin F1 Rookie

    Jun 14, 2009
    3,454
    Dublin, Ireland
    Full Name:
    Greg
    I'd be interested to know how you get on. Please post back here whenever you get a chance.
     
  19. daflk

    daflk Formula Junior

    Jan 27, 2013
    257
    Hong Kong
    #19 daflk, Jul 21, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2013
    different part number for different material, I reckon.

    Here's 360trev's original post on the differences between CS and stock 360.

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/360-430/269934-real-differences-between-360-cs-handling.html

    In particular, see post 4 where there is some detail on uprated vs stock bushes, implying the fitting is identical, but material is different for the classic tradeoff between handling and comfort.

    BTW, although there is mention of Energy Suspension aftermarket parts, in a subsequent post on a different forum, 360trev and other mentioned that they don't fit the 360. I've also separately confirmed this with them directly.
     
  20. daflk

    daflk Formula Junior

    Jan 27, 2013
    257
    Hong Kong
    done more research, whilst 360trev says CS and 360 Challenge use identical flamblocs / bushings, the part numbers do not suggest its the same part:

    Front Suspension

    Suspension Arms
    Upper
    SKU-209167 FLAMBLOC..... QTY 4 £ 75.75 <--- uprated (as used on CS/430 Scuderia/16M/Challenge cars

    Lower
    SKU-209166 FLAMBLOC..... QTY 4 £ 78.56 <--- uprated (as used on CS/430 Scuderia/16M/Challenge cars

    Rear Suspension

    Suspension Arms
    Upper
    SKU-209167 FLAMBLOC..... QTY 4 £ 75.75 <--- uprated (as used on CS/430 Scuderia/16M/Challenge cars

    Lower
    SKU-209166 FLAMBLOC..... QTY 4 £ 78.56 <--- uprated (as used on CS/430 Scuderia/16M/Challenge cars


    That's from 360trev

    However, if you look at the part diagrams for 360 Challenge, the part numbers for the Challenge flanblocs are 181345 and 181345. However, given the control arms appear to be the same part number, I think it will fit.

    Anyone can confirm?
     
  21. hangarsixco

    hangarsixco Formula Junior

    Oct 10, 2010
    396
    S. California
    Full Name:
    Chris
    Any update on these? did you guys have these made yet?

     
  22. voicey

    voicey Formula 3

    Jul 29, 2009
    1,193
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    Aldous Voice
    Just too add some more info to the thread...

    I was in the parts store of the team that run a 430 Challenge race car last Thursday. One of the things I had considered doing was using 430CH flamblocs as they are stiffer and much cheaper than the OEM rubber ones. However, when I had some in my hand there's no way I'd fit them - although they were super stiff they had noticeable play in them. The person who was showing me around told me that they all were like that.
     
  23. Mozella

    Mozella Formula Junior

    Mar 24, 2013
    905
    Piemonte, Italia
    I contacted a man (here in Italy) about supplying the bushings and got positive information and a good potential price quote. I seem to remember 47 Euro. As I recall, he was going to make them out of some sort of high tech rubber making them suitable for street use.

    We exchanged drawings, etc. He wasn't quite ready to make a production run, but said he would have bushings ready very soon. However, after further research I decided I did not need to replace my bushings so I dropped the idea and haven't contacted this gentleman since the fall of 2013. Try contacting Carlo Facciano at this Email address: [email protected]

    Please report back here and let us know his response, especially if he can actually supply these bushings at a good price.
     
  24. London

    London Karting

    Aug 29, 2009
    189
    London
    Given that a four-corner replacement with OEM parts is north of £1500 just in parts, is there anything we should/could do to extend the life of these components? Would smearing the exposed rubber parts with red rubber grease help in any way if done on a regular basis? Or a silicone spray grease?
     
  25. rustybits

    rustybits F1 Rookie
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Jan 28, 2007
    2,509
    Somewhere, anywhere
    Full Name:
    Eddie B
    You can take the circlips out and press the centre either way to clean and lubricate them. I've seen attempts at cheap replacements and I wouldn't fit them to a customers car. I also think re-engineering them is a waste of time, unlike many suspension components on these cars the flanblocks are well engineered and long lasting. They have far from a high failure rate, and I've seen very few issues in later models equipped with them...
     

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